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Thread: Bapticatholic

  1. #1
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    Default Bapticatholic

    ..is a new term I learned today.

    The term "Bapticatholic" refers to those Baptists who support Roman Catholic faith and/or practice. This term can also refer to Baptists who seek to "link up" with the Roman Catholic Church in various ways, such as the Baptists Billy Graham, the late Jerry Falwell, and Rick Warren.

    A Bapticatholic generally downplays any purported differences between Roman Catholic and Baptist faith and practice. Instead, any real Catholic vs. Baptist differences are often overlooked by such Bapticatholics in the name of "Ecumenical Unity".
    Source: http://bapticatholic.com/

    I don't typically support the labelling of people into sterotypes, but if the shoe fits, they might as well wear it. The problems with labelling usually arise when care has not been taken to being sure that the term applied fits exactly to the person or group that it is being applied.
    "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand: for this I also believe, that unless I believe I will not understand." --Anselm of Canterbury

    Hebrews 12:3-4
    For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

  2. #2
    His Bride Guest

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    Why don't they just admit it....they're all really Catholics at heart.

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    blasphemy envy

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    Hmmm, hadn't heard that term before, but I can see it happening. Our church is non-denominational, but 2 years ago, one of the attendees suggested we start doing an "Advent Candle" lighting, starting 4 weeks before Christmas. I felt really uneasy about it, and finally last night, forwarded something I had found about the practice of celebrating Advent invading Evangelical churches, to our pastor's wife. She responded back that it had bothered her also, but didn't know that anyone else felt the same way about it, as no one has said anything to her or PT. I did a quick Google search, and found that it was indeed started by the RCC, which I thought that it was. The things I see happening in main stream denominations is so sad, to realize that so many have itching ears and preachers willing to tickle them There is such a lack of discernment. A couple of years ago, while waiting in my doctor's office, I read an article in Newsweek of an interview with Billy Graham. It confirmed something I've felt for some time~~that he's drifted from where he once stood~~and it was very sad to read what he had to say

  5. #5
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    I've been having problems finding a church because of this "ecumenism" movement.

    I'm attending a Baptist church right now...it seems basically sound, and the people are very nice and caring. But they're doing the advent wreath thing...not sure if I should move on just on that account and give up the many positives I've seen...

    I just don't know what to think. I know NO church has perfect doctrine, and if I waited for the perfect church with perfect people who never make mistakes, I'd never find a church.

    On the other hand, bringing in Catholic rituals can lead to a very slippery slope, KWIM??

    It's driving me crazy!!

    My question to everyone is where is the line crossed? How does one discern when errors are trivial? The bible does say that we shouldn't cause divisions in the Body of Christ on "disputable matters..." Not sure of the scripture reference for that...

    I guess I'm asking for some input on what ya'll think are "disputable matters..."

  6. #6
    His Bride Guest

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    It's a tough call, Abigail. My family and I attended one church that we thought was going along just fine, scripturally. Until the pastor stopped preaching in an expository manner. Then we began to allow Catholic Easter traditions. Then Harry Potter appeared before the service on the power point. When I met with him about my concerns he proceeded to tell me that people are inspired by various elements, listing stained glass windows, candles, meditative poses, mantras, etc. It was time to leave. Having a background in Roman Catholicism it was the last thing I wanted to go back to.

    Trust the Lord to show you. One thing may not be a deal breaker, but if a pattern begins to emerge, I would be alarmed.

  7. #7
    susanb Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abigail View Post
    I guess I'm asking for some input on what ya'll think are "disputable matters..."
    Disputable matters: that Jesus is the ONLY Way to God.

    That may seem too simple, but look at all the garbage these churches are allowing. Candles, meditation, mantras, being slain in the spirit, the-latest-fad Bible studies, singing popular songs, spiritual art -- all those are supposedly going to set the "atmosphere" and get one closer to God. But they are actually works of the flesh and have no place in the reconciliation of man to God.

    Things that IMO don't matter:
    how long a woman's hair is
    which translation of the Bible is used (NOT a paraphrase)
    women wear / don't wear head scarves
    women speak / don't speak (utter a sound) in the church

  8. #8
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    The term "Bapticatholic", (also called "Bapti-Catholic"), is related to the term "New Evangelical". Bapticatholics and other New Evangelicals are part of the "Ecumenical Movement", a movement to bring all religions together under The Great Roman Catholic Whore in preparation for his unveiling of the Antichrist spoken of in the Book of Revelation.
    A Bapticatholic is an Apostate
    How about the Charismatic Catholics praying to mary in tongues?



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

  9. #9
    His Bride Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzardhut View Post
    A Bapticatholic is an Apostate
    How about the Charismatic Catholics praying to mary in tongues?
    Okay, now you did it. The Charismatic Catholics aren't going to be happy with the way you are making fun of their favorite pastime. You know that they believe that she is the one true god!

  10. #10
    4evrHis Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnOdom44 View Post
    Hmmm, hadn't heard that term before, but I can see it happening. Our church is non-denominational, but 2 years ago, one of the attendees suggested we start doing an "Advent Candle" lighting, starting 4 weeks before Christmas. I felt really uneasy about it, and finally last night, forwarded something I had found about the practice of celebrating Advent invading Evangelical churches, to our pastor's wife. She responded back that it had bothered her also, but didn't know that anyone else felt the same way about it, as no one has said anything to her or PT. I did a quick Google search, and found that it was indeed started by the RCC, which I thought that it was. The things I see happening in main stream denominations is so sad, to realize that so many have itching ears and preachers willing to tickle them There is such a lack of discernment. A couple of years ago, while waiting in my doctor's office, I read an article in Newsweek of an interview with Billy Graham. It confirmed something I've felt for some time~~that he's drifted from where he once stood~~and it was very sad to read what he had to say
    My church is non-denom. too & started doing the advent thing back in..`01 i think? I've been feeling for a long time that its time for me to move on & find a new church. Now I'm making it my #1 new years goal !

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4evrHis View Post
    My church is non-denom. too & started doing the advent thing back in..`01 i think? I've been feeling for a long time that its time for me to move on & find a new church. Now I'm making it my #1 new years goal !
    good idea



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

  12. #12
    Tres Wright Guest

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    Bapticatholic, LOL! I hadn't heard that one before, it sounds a lot like "athiebeliever" to me

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    Question,
    In reading parts of this thread I have a couple of major questions. What is wrong with celebrating or lighting Advent candles? I attend a presbyerian pca church, conservative denomination, and we also incorporate the advent wrath/candles and utilize it to portray the christmas message. Granted it did have a start in roman catholicism. Granted it is a ritual and tradition that we do but what is wrong with that? Nowhere in scripture does it say that all tradition is wrong. Tradition is only wrong when it trumps or goes against the clear teaching of scripture i.e. when it contradicts scripture. Another way it is wrong is when a tradition is not found in scripture, nor is taught against (such as lighting advent candles), and someone says that all people are required to keep the tradition, as happens in roman catholicism. If my church chooses to keep that tradition there is nothing wrong with it nor is it being apostate. We do it to remind us of the birth of Christ and the story of His birth etc... That is our main focus in the advent tradition.

    If some are so against all roman catholic traditions that do not go against scripture I have a few questions for you.

    1) Do you keep the tradition of celebrating christmas??? Where is that in scripture? Where is the date of Jesus' birth mentioned? Does the celebration of christmas not arise from pagan traditions and did not the roman catholic church "christianize" christmas from being a pagan holiday to a christian one?

    So therefore if you celebrate christmas how is that any different than lighting an advent wreath? Both are traditions not found in scripture so are you not then being inconsistant if you decry the lighting of an advent wreath but celebrate christmas??

    2) What of easter? The same point is that originally it was a pagan holiday that was christianized. Why do we not always celebrate it the same time as Jewish passover since that is when Jesus died on the cross. The celebration of easter is also a roman catholic tradition buit we celebrate it as well, and at the same time the roman catholics do? Are you not being inconsistant and a "baptocatholic" by celebrating it?

    3) What about traditions that your church does? For example does it have an altar call? If it does is that not a tradition? Where is scripture are we told to have them at the end of a church service? Also the term "altar" call stems from roman catholicism since that is the area of the church is where the priest in roman catholicism "performs" his "ministry" during the roman mass. To be consistant the term "altar" should not be used.

    The reason for the above post is not to incite an argument but rather to ask you to think about what you are really saying. It is a terrible thing to label a church as apostate or seeking another church for holding to a tradition that is not condemned by scripture. It is just as wrong to say that one MUST not adhere to a certain tradition as it is to say they must.

  14. #14
    Tres Wright Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 solas View Post
    Question,
    In reading parts of this thread I have a couple of major questions. What is wrong with celebrating or lighting Advent candles? <snip>

    1) Do you keep the tradition of celebrating christmas??? Where is that in scripture? Where is the date of Jesus' birth mentioned? Does the celebration of christmas not arise from pagan traditions and did not the roman catholic church "christianize" christmas from being a pagan holiday to a christian one?
    Yes, Christmas and Easter certainly have their roots as pagan holidays. My family does celebrate them and we use them as a time to reflect on the Lord, but we do not worship the Christmas tree or idols or candles or Easter eggs, etc. I don't think anyone sees lighting candles on an advent wreath as unholy or anything, if you like doing it and you use it as a reason to read from scripture then what's the harm? As long as you don't bow down and start worshipping the wreath I think the main gripe is that some churches get so involved in rituals that they forget why they exist in the first place- to emphasize the importance of Christ in our lives and help us in our walk with Him. 10,000 hail mary's will help a person to Christ about as much as getting mail out of the mail box.

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    Tres,
    I totally agree many churches can get so involved in rituals, or even politics as evidenced by another thread, that they can forget the real reason we are here: to Glorify God and enjoy Him forever and to affect the world in such a way that they give glory to God as well and come to he who can only save their souls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 solas View Post
    Tres,
    I totally agree many churches can get so involved in rituals, or even politics as evidenced by another thread, that they can forget the real reason we are here: to Glorify God and enjoy Him forever and to affect the world in such a way that they give glory to God as well and come to he who can only save their souls.
    Many do that in vain repetition and religion missing God just enough to spend eternity in darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by 5 solas View Post
    It is just as wrong to say that one MUST not adhere to a certain tradition as it is to say they must.
    It's best to adhere to truth and the real Jesus of scripture



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

  17. #17
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    Can I add my two cents here? I'll be as humble as possible. I'm usually on the lookout for signs of the nearness of Christ's return, apostacy being one. I despise some of the things taught in churches today but this thread kind of intrigues me.

    Concerning the things listed here, such as lighting an Advent candle, my question would be this: is this practice being taught as a means of attaining or maintaining salvation? or as a means of celebrating salvation?

    I'm Baptist myself, although I really prefer "child of God" to a denominational label. I consider myself to be pure doctrinally, even if it means not always marching in a tight lockstep with staunch traditional Baptists on some issues. Our church does not use Advent candles but I don't believe I would be so opposed to it that I had to leave the church, so long as it is not taught as a condition of my salvation. Personally, I have participated in "candle-light" services during Christmas that I found to be very reverent. My attention was toward Jesus and not the candle itself.

    I can readily see how some things can work their way into a tradition that might be bastardized into a "work" of salvation. I think it can be very dangerous if it is'nt represented for what it is. Sound teaching is the critical thing here. In my opinion, when things like this are required by the church on the condition of salvation, or to remain in good standing, then yes, by all means, I think it's time to go elsewhere. But if it is only a means of celebrating the birth of Jesus, then participating in it is a matter of your own choosing, knowing full well that your position in Christ is the same, saved or lost, regardless of whether you take part.

    In true Baptist tradition, "I'll close with this..."

    Let me clarify this. While I am asserting that this particular activity can be a matter of joyful celebration, it should guide our thoughts toward Jesus Himself, as should all activity in the Christian's life. But this particular stance on that does not mean to throw the door open wide to any kind of activity, " so long as it is not required for salvation". We have to have discerning hearts concerning all things. We are certainly living in the time when many are departing the true Faith and doing some of the most ridiculous things that have nothing whatsoever with Jesus. But if a protestant church uses an Advent candle, or a "candle-light" service to reverence the birth of our Saviour, I don't think that falls under the heading of apostacy.

    That's my take on it anyway.

    And again, in true Baptist fashion, "I'll add yet one more brief point in closing..."

    If we find that a friend or a church is indeed sliding towards a heretical practice, and leading others away from Jesus, then we should be bold enough to confront it but let us remember to do so in a manner that we may be able to lead them back. A hostile condescension will not do it. We are given the word of reconciliation. We carry the word of God with His compassion, not a clenched fist with torches and pitchforks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by me go! View Post
    Can I add my two cents here? I'll be as humble as possible. I'm usually on the lookout for signs of the nearness of Christ's return, apostacy being one. I despise some of the things taught in churches today but this thread kind of intrigues me.

    Concerning the things listed here, such as lighting an Advent candle, my question would be this: is this practice being taught as a means of attaining or maintaining salvation? or as a means of celebrating salvation?
    more as a means to appease the religious that they are close to salvation



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by me go! View Post
    Can I add my two cents here? I'll be as humble as possible. I'm usually on the lookout for signs of the nearness of Christ's return, apostacy being one. I despise some of the things taught in churches today but this thread kind of intrigues me.

    Concerning the things listed here, such as lighting an Advent candle, my question would be this: is this practice being taught as a means of attaining or maintaining salvation? or as a means of celebrating salvation?

    I'm Baptist myself, although I really prefer "child of God" to a denominational label. I consider myself to be pure doctrinally, even if it means not always marching in a tight lockstep with staunch traditional Baptists on some issues. Our church does not use Advent candles but I don't believe I would be so opposed to it that I had to leave the church, so long as it is not taught as a condition of my salvation. Personally, I have participated in "candle-light" services during Christmas that I found to be very reverent. My attention was toward Jesus and not the candle itself.

    I can readily see how some things can work their way into a tradition that might be bastardized into a "work" of salvation. I think it can be very dangerous if it is'nt represented for what it is. Sound teaching is the critical thing here. In my opinion, when things like this are required by the church on the condition of salvation, or to remain in good standing, then yes, by all means, I think it's time to go elsewhere. But if it is only a means of celebrating the birth of Jesus, then participating in it is a matter of your own choosing, knowing full well that your position in Christ is the same, saved or lost, regardless of whether you take part.

    In true Baptist tradition, "I'll close with this..."

    Let me clarify this. While I am asserting that this particular activity can be a matter of joyful celebration, it should guide our thoughts toward Jesus Himself, as should all activity in the Christian's life. But this particular stance on that does not mean to throw the door open wide to any kind of activity, " so long as it is not required for salvation". We have to have discerning hearts concerning all things. We are certainly living in the time when many are departing the true Faith and doing some of the most ridiculous things that have nothing whatsoever with Jesus. But if a protestant church uses an Advent candle, or a "candle-light" service to reverence the birth of our Saviour, I don't think that falls under the heading of apostacy.

    That's my take on it anyway.

    And again, in true Baptist fashion, "I'll add yet one more brief point in closing..."

    If we find that a friend or a church is indeed sliding towards a heretical practice, and leading others away from Jesus, then we should be bold enough to confront it but let us remember to do so in a manner that we may be able to lead them back. A hostile condescension will not do it. We are given the word of reconciliation. We carry the word of God with His compassion, not a clenched fist with torches and pitchforks.
    Well said, me go, and you only closed twice!! I'm Baptist, too, and I know that "tradition" well -- in fact, my pastor jokes about closing his e-mails more than once all the time! Another great Baptist tradition is having a congregational meal every chance you get. No occasion is too insignificant to have a good covered-dish meal! After all, there are no calories in church!

    I agree with me go. As long as one is focused on Jesus and worshipping and praising Him, such traditions are fine. If they become more about the ritual and less about the worship, that is when something needs to change. I can see how this can occur even during regular Sunday worship. Say, for instance, that a church sings the traditional 3 congregational songs, then the offering is taken, then the Doxology is sung, then the choir sings, etc. Then one Sunday someone wants to do something "different," maybe sing 4 songs, or change the order of service, or something like that, and it upsets people to do that. That would be more about the "ritual" than the worship. I've known services to have an altar call BEFORE the preaching even began because someone felt led to come to the altar during the song service to pray or speak to the preacher. Sometimes our choir sings 2 songs because one of us feels led to sing a certain song, so we are asked to stay put for that second song. Our song leader is notorious for talking between verses of congregational songs. Sometimes he goes on a bit long, but he is Spirit-led to say what he says. We even have a Christmas Communion the week before Christmas which is a time to go as a family in a candle-lit setting, with soft music, and be led by the preacher in a quiet, reverent, worshipful Lord's Supper service. At our church, it's all about the worship and being led by the Spirit.
    "Oir is leatsa an rioghachd, agus an cumhachd, agus a gloir, gu siorraidh, Amen." ("For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever, Amen" -- Scots Gaelic)

  20. #20
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    Musician and Me Too,
    Amen!! Very good posts.


    Buzzard, you mentioned:
    more as a means to appease the religious that they are close to salvation
    I disagree. May I ask you how you know anothers heart or motivations???

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