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Thread: No one has ever gone into heaven except...

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    Default No one has ever gone into heaven except...

    Was rereading book of John today and John 3:13 says no one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven,the Son of Man. I thought Enoch and Elijah went to heaven. Could someone please help me understand this?

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    Sing4Him Guest

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    The verse means no one has gone to heaven and returned to talk about heavenly things but Jesus. It is His permanent eternal abode.


    Enoch and Elijah did not experience death as they basically were raptured off of this earth. They did not return to talk about it.

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    Ok. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caligal View Post
    Was rereading book of John today and John 3:13 says no one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven,the Son of Man. I thought Enoch and Elijah went to heaven. Could someone please help me understand this?
    Another way to look at it is that Enoch and Elijah didn't technically go to heaven like you or I would go to the store. They were taken to heaven by God. Jesus did go to heaven under his own power, because he is God.

    The lesson to be learned here is that a person will never be able to get to heaven under his/her own power. Only God can take us there and he'll only take us there if we've fulfilled his requirements of repenting and believing on Jesus for our salvation.
    "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand: for this I also believe, that unless I believe I will not understand." --Anselm of Canterbury

    Hebrews 12:3-4
    For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

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    Sing4Him Guest

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    and no man returns to tell us of his "experience" in heaven.

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    I understand now and thank you so much for the help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sing4Him View Post


    and no man returns to tell us of his "experience" in heaven.
    Exactly!
    "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand: for this I also believe, that unless I believe I will not understand." --Anselm of Canterbury

    Hebrews 12:3-4
    For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

  9. #9
    seekingtruth1 Guest

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    so where are Elijah and Enoch? What have they been doing? Ar ethey not in Heaven? I wondered about this is well.....

  10. #10
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    And I really believe, and this after years and years of Bible study, that the moment any saint of God died, they went immediately to heaven...whether Old Testament or New Testament. Some people, some Medieval theologians taught that when an Old Testament saint died he went into what was later called limbus patrum(?), the limbo of the fathers. He went into a sort of holding tank, a sort of a nowhere place where you waited until Christ died. And after Christ died and went to heaven, then you could get into heaven. But I don't think the Old Testament really verifies that. I think there is nothing to indicate in the Old Testament that there was a holding tank, or a waiting place. I think when an Old Testament saint died, he went into the presence of God. When a New Testament Christian dies, he goes into the presence of God.

    For example, if we were to look at the Psalms, just as a couple of illustrations. In Psalm 16 it says in verse 11, "Thou wilt make known to me the path of life." Now here is the psalmist hopeful as he faces death. He says, "The Lord will not let his flesh see corruption. He will not abandon his soul to the grave or Sheol, but You will make known to me the path of life." Then this statement, "In Thy presence is fullness of joy, in Thy right hand there are pleasures forever." The anticipation of the psalmist was that leaving this world he would go into the presence of God at His right hand to find pleasure forever more and fullness of joy.

    Look at Psalm 23. In Psalm 23, that wonderful shepherd's Psalm, "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures, He leads me beside quiet waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name sake." Then this, "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil for Thou art with me." There is no place that you go when you walk through the valley of the shadow of death where God is not with you and heaven is where God is. "Thy rod, Thy staff, they comfort me, Thou doest prepare a table before me in the presence of mine enemies, Thou anointest my head with oil, my cup overflows, surely goodness and loving kindness will follow me all the days of my life," and then what? "Then I will dwell in limbo." No, there's no limbo here. "Then I will dwell in the...what?...the house of the Lord." And where is the house of the Lord? Where does God dwell? He dwells in heaven.

    The hope of the psalmist was to be absent from the body to be present with the Lord. Exactly what the Apostle Paul said in 2 Corinthians chapter 5. So I believe that when an Old Testament saint died, he went into the presence of God. If you look, for example, at Matthew 17 and the transfiguration of Christ, you will remember that on that mount where Christ was transfigured Moses and Elijah appeared. They appeared. Keep in mind that Christ had not yet died and had not yet risen from the dead and yet there were Moses and Elijah obviously...obviously safe in the presence of God and brought to that wonderful scene.

    Take, for example, Luke 16 where you have Lazarus, the beggar, who died, it says, and when he died he was seen in Abraham's bosom. And both he and Abraham are seen in a place together, a place of blessedness, I believe a place in the presence of God.

    Now if you understand what Abraham's bosom means, or Abraham's chest, it might help. The picture is...is a picture of an eastern banquet where they would recline. That was the way they did it. They had couches and a banquet was a very elongated prolonged event where you reclined and you ate and there was feasting and celebration and music and conversation and a banquet could go on for a long time. In fact, a wedding could go on for seven days of eating and eating and...and the guests would stay in the home. And so, reclining at the table was very common. The configuration of the reclining caused the head of one person to be against the chest of another one. For example, let's say that Abraham is reclining this way and Lazarus is reclining this way, Lazarus will be talking to Abraham from just about the level of his chest. That's the imagery. And if you were sitting across the table, it would appear to you as if almost Lazarus had his head upon the chest of Abraham.

    Very much the same way that it was John the Apostle who was placing his head on the bosom of Christ at the Last Supper. Having that reclining position overlapping their heads, they would hold conversations that way. You certainly didn't want to hold a conversation with someone's feet and so you would position yourself where two heads were together and then two heads were together over here. And so, to be in Abraham's bosom meant to be reclining at a banqueting table in a celebration of joy. And the picture is the presence of God, the house of God, the table of celebration, that's the idea.

    And furthermore, the most honored man in the history of the Jews was what man? Abraham. And if you were reclining near the chest of Abraham, you were seated next to the guest of honor. And here is a beggar who spent all his life with absolutely nothing having personal intimacy with the greatest person who ever lived up to that time...with the exception of John the Baptist. But in Jewish history, the greatest. Here is this no- account beggar reclining next to the guest of honor. The picture then is a picture of a banquet, a picture of a celebration, a picture--if you will--of the house of God and the feast that He lays out for those who have come into His presence. Lazarus may have had a diseased earthly life and he had to beg to exist, but here was the place of highest honor with the greatest father of Israel, namely Abraham. And so you have that place called "Abraham's bosom."

    You also have another term used to speak of heaven in the Old Testament or in the time before the resurrection. Look with me for just a moment at Luke 23 and we'll go on from this particular point, but I want to establish it in your mind. Luke 23, now do you remember the thief on the cross? That...this is the account of that. And he says to Jesus in verse 42, "Remember me when You come in Your Kingdom." And He said to him...now keep this one in your mind, we're going to come back to this..."Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in...what?...paradise." Where's that? Somebody says, "Well, that's the same limbo." No, where is paradise? Well, you're going to be there today, you're going to be with Me there today, it's not a post-resurrection place, then, cause Jesus doesn't come out of the grave for a couple of more days, this is paradise. Now what is paradise?

    Well, to find out all you need to do is see if you can find paradise somewhere else in the Scripture. And we can in 2 Corinthians 12. This is long after the resurrection, long after the crucifixion. And Paul says, verse 2, "I know a man," he's speaking of himself, "in Christ who 14 years ago whether in the body I do not know or out of the body I do not know." In other words, he had an experience that he really doesn't understand. God knows. "Such a man was caught up to the third heaven. He said, The Lord took me to heaven." He says, "I know how such a man whether in the body or apart from the body, I don't know, God knows, was caught up into...what?...paradise." So whatever paradise is it was before the resurrection and it's still after the resurrection. And the only conclusion you can make is that paradise is heaven. Abraham's bosom is heaven, paradise is heaven. Wherever a saint goes when he dies, it's the presence of God, it's heaven, it's the celebration time, it's the feast time, it's the Father's house and He lays out the banquet and you're there for all the joy that God can possibly provide His saints. Whether you're before or after the resurrection, I believe absence from the body is present with the Lord. I don't think the Old Testament saints went into a waiting place, a holding tank, I think they went into the presence of God. "And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever," so says the psalmist.
    http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...=4&v=3&t=KJV#3

  11. #11
    xxzz Guest

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    The OT saints was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom under the Earth.
    Maybe this site might clarify where Elijah and Enoch was at.
    http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html

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    I disagree with the article in that link stating that Enoch died. Hebrews 11:5 says Enoch did not experience death. If you read Genesis 5 it goes out of its way in an indirect manner to make the point that Enoch did not die. For example at the end of each name listed it says and so and so died. Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, and Jared all listed as dead. When you get to Enoch's name? Not listed as dead. Methuselah and Lamech after Enoch? Dead.
    Psalm 68:5 A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling.

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    seekingtruth1 Guest

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    s basically we are back to square 1 - where he be? or where he be at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by seekingtruth1 View Post
    s basically we are back to square 1 - where he be? or where he be at?
    Nope. See Genesis 5:24

    "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."

    Enoch is in heaven with God.


    And Elijah...

    2 Kings 2:11

    "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

    They never died and God took them both up to heaven to be with him. Which is where they are now.
    "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand: for this I also believe, that unless I believe I will not understand." --Anselm of Canterbury

    Hebrews 12:3-4
    For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

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    But nobody could live in Heaven before Jesus came, right? That's why they had to go to Abraham's bosom. Because the blood of Jesus had not removed their sins yet.

    How could Enoch be an exception? Or Elijah, for that matter?


    “God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel”

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    seekingtruth1 Guest

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    thast what I used to think - bc Jesus said that HE was teh only one in Heavn...so which is it??? I dont belive Enoch or Elijah died....but look at what Jesus said about who has been in Heaven....? Someones got some splainin to do....
    Quote Originally Posted by fracturedInfinity View Post
    Nope. See Genesis 5:24

    "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."

    Enoch is in heaven with God.


    And Elijah...

    2 Kings 2:11

    "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

    They never died and God took them both up to heaven to be with him. Which is where they are now.

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    Where does it say that Jesus was the only one in heaven?
    "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand: for this I also believe, that unless I believe I will not understand." --Anselm of Canterbury

    Hebrews 12:3-4
    For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

  18. #18
    seekingtruth1 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by fracturedInfinity View Post
    Where does it say that Jesus was the only one in heaven?
    John 3:13

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    Quote Originally Posted by seekingtruth1 View Post
    John 3:13
    That doesn't say he's the only one in heaven, just that he's the only one that ever ascended into heaven.

    http://net.bible.org/passage.php?pas...203:13&tab=kjv
    http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=305
    anabaino
    Definition: 1) ascend
    1a) to go up
    1b) to rise, mount, be borne up, spring up
    Here there seems to be the problem with the definition of "be borne up" which would seem to include what happened to Elijah and Enoch, but if we look at the other indicators of the language here we find that is not the case with the definition of the word translated as ascended...

    5758 Tense - Perfect See 5778
    Voice - Active See 5784
    Mood - Indicative See 5791
    5784 Voice - Active

    The active voice represents the subject as the doer or
    performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "The
    boy hit the ball," the boy performs the action.
    So we see it's clear that when the Bible says no one has ascended to heaven, it's clearly speaking of people getting there of their own power. That doesn't mean no one else is there other than Jesus, just that no one else got their by the own power other than him.

    The Bible doesn't expressly say that Elijah and Enoch went to heaven (the place where God is), but the indications when comparing other similar situations seems to indicate that is where they went.
    "I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand: for this I also believe, that unless I believe I will not understand." --Anselm of Canterbury

    Hebrews 12:3-4
    For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

  20. #20
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    Joh 3:13 AndG2532 no manG3762 hath ascended upG305 toG1519 heaven,G3772 butG1508 he that came downG2597 fromG1537 heaven,G3772 even theG3588 SonG5207 of manG444 which isG5607 inG1722 heaven.G3772
    G305
    ἀναβαίνω
    anabainō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) ascend
    1a) to go up
    1b) to rise, mount, be borne up, spring up
    Part of Speech: verb
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G303 and the base of G939
    G303
    ἀνά
    ana
    Thayer Definition:
    1) into the midst, in the midst, amidst, among, between
    Part of Speech: preposition
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary prep and adv

    G939
    βάσις
    basis
    Thayer Definition:
    1) a stepping, walking
    2) that with which one steps, the foot
    Part of Speech: noun feminine
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from baino (to walk)
    A 'self powering' is implied, IMO.

    The same word is used when Jesus 'went up' out of the water after His baptism by JtB.
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
    (Psa 19:1b-2)

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