Mormonism - the Islam of America

[JohnnyHye]

Mormonism is basically a newer, Americanized version of Islam. Here are some of the many similarities:

1. "Holy" Cities - Muslims venerate Medina where Mohammed was born, and Mormons venerate Palymyra where Joseph Smith grew up. Also, Salt Lake City is to the Mormons what Mecca is to Muslims - the "promised" land.

2. Founded by a "prophet" - mohammed for islam, Joseph Smith for Mormonism. Both of these men were born poor and were uneducated when they invented their religions.

3. Additional "Scripture" that overrides God's Word - Koran for muslims, Book of Mormon, D&C, and other "revelation" handed down through "prophets".

4. Both require the wearing of all-white, special religious clothing for certain religious rituals.

5. Both have believed in the concept of "religious war" and have raised religious armies to fight these wars.

6. Strange Dietary laws for both religions, including forbidding of alcohol for either religion (and this rule is routinely broken by both religion's practitioners, as well).

7. Both of them attempt to establish Theocracy wherever they are by taking over the government, which they do by flooding a town with residents of their religion - this goes for both Muslims and Mormons. Examples - Muslims in Lebanon do this, and Mormons in California and Arizona and Idaho do this. Also, both religions have already established huge theocracies (i.e. Saudi Arabia for muslims, Utah for Mormons).

8. Both are based on paganism.

9. Both consider Jesus as "important", but they both also lower Jesus to be lower than the One True God.

10. Polygamy is accepted in both.

11. The founding prophets of both not only had many wives, but they both married young girls as well.

12. Both religions believe that there will be sex in the afterlife and it will be a reward

13. Both religions have buildings and rituals which they exclude "outsiders" from.

There are more - if anyone wants to add, be my guest.

I think it's interesting how similar these two religions really are, although people don't realize it because people tend to look at "American vs. Arab" rather than "Christian vs. non-Christian" when comparing the two religions, and the fact is that while Mormonism is very "American", it is just as non-Christian as Islam.

[BlessedinHim]

Very good points. At first I have to admit, I was skeptical of what you would say. Then I read it. Good points.

[vsi4Jesus]

Johnny I enjoyed your post. Just one question. Number 10 about polygamy. I don't think it is practiced in the Mormon Church today is it? I do agree that the founding prophets had many wives. But I thought the Mormon church outlawed that.

[BlessedinHim]

I think the mormons branched off into two sects. One of them still do practice polygamy. There are stories in the news about these that still do practice polygamy.

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon218.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy

Quoted from above reference:

Although most Mormons now accept the prohibition on plural marriage, various splinter groups left the mainline LDS Church to continue the open practice of plural marriage. Polygamy among these groups persists today in Utah, neighboring states, and the spin-off colonies, as well as among isolated individuals with no organized church affiliation. Polygamist churches of Mormon origin are often referred to as Mormon fundamentalist who often use a disputed September 27, 1886 revelation to John Taylor as the basis for their authority to continue the practice of plural marriage.[37] The Salt Lake Tribune states there are as many as 37,000 fundamentalists, with less than half of them living in polygamous households.[38] Most of the polygamy is believed to be restricted to about a dozen extended groups of polygamous fundamentalists. The LDS Church asserts that it is improper to call any of these splinter polygamous groups "Mormon."[39][40]

[Butterfly35]

Wow! I had no clue!
Thanks for the info!

[vsi4Jesus]

Thanks blessed did not know this

[JohnnyHye]

Johnny I enjoyed your post. Just one question. Number 10 about polygamy. I don't think it is practiced in the Mormon Church today is it? I do agree that the founding prophets had many wives. But I thought the Mormon church outlawed that.

Thanks for the question! Blessedinhim gave great info that answers that. As blessed indicated, the Mormon church split up.

Basically, after Joseph Smith died, there was a struggle for power to rule the religion between Joseph Smith's son (who JS's wife supported also) and Brigham Young. One of the main points of contention was the issue of polygamy. Brigham wanted to keep it, and JS's son and wife didn't want to keep it. So the followers of Smith's son and wife stayed in Missouri. They are today known as the "Community of Christ", but for a long time called themselves the "Reformed Latter-Day Saints" (RLDS).

Brigham Young and the polygamists moved to Utah and set up their mormon theocracy there. As time went on they wanted statehood from the US. The main reason they wouldn't get statehood was polygamy. So, their prophet had a "revelation" that polygamy was wrong now, and Utah gained statehood. They still don't believe it was wrong for Brigham Young or anyone else before the "revelation", and they mostly believe in polygamy in the afterlife. This is the biggest Mormon church, the one most people are familiar with, and they are called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (LDS).

Many groups broke from this religion because they felt the revelation against prophecy was false, and wanted to keep polygamy. There have been over 200 splits from the main religion, and pretty much all of them have been polygamous.

So while the 'official' mormonism (the "LDS") is currently anti-polygamy, even they have beliefs that accept polygamy for periods of time and for the afterlife. Other than the RLDS, most of the other mormon splinter groups are VERY polygamous.

There are entire towns in Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming and even California and Canada that are owned and run by polygamous mormons. I would imagine it is very scary to pass through - they probably leave you alone if you just pass through politely and don't linger too long, but from what I've heard they don't want anyone hanging around. If I lingered in a town like that, I couldn't help but stare if I saw a guy with several women or girls in tow.

My friend went to Utah and saw a man in Zion National Park who was with about 5 women that were aged about 17 or 18 to 35, he said the man looked in his late 30's or early 40's. Then they had about 8 children with them ranging from a couple of infants to toddlers about 3 years old. Weird, huh!!! He said the women were all dressed like "pioneers" but the guy was dressed like a "business casual" corporate guy. I would have been staring like crazy!

[vsi4Jesus]

Thanks Johnny interesting stuff. My mother is part of the LDS. I have heard of the reformed before. I just did not know this information. It's truly sad tho that most of my family members are part of this group. Won't listen to me at all about Christianity.

[BlessedinHim]

Thanks Johnny interesting stuff. My mother is part of the LDS. I have heard of the reformed before. I just did not know this information. It's truly sad tho that most of my family members are part of this group. Won't listen to me at all about Christianity.

I know how ya feel, my dad was into Mormonism, too, and he wouldnt listen to reason either. Nothing I said would lead him away from that religion.

Not even the fact that there is not archaeological evidence to back up what the mormons believe would sway him. I dont know if he made it to heaven or not. I just have to leave that in God's hands.

I am glad I was able to help. Thanks for the more indepth on it JohnnyHye.

[JohnnyHye]

You're both welcome for the added info - if you want to know anything else let me know. I try to get my info from their own teachings and writings so as not to be wrong in what I accuse them of; but there's plenty in their own stuff that a Christian can see is wrong.

I understand what you both say about how family members won't even talk about it. The Mormons I've known in the past, even a couple of ones who professed to being devout mormons, would say things to me like "Well, it's a great lifestyle choice regardless of the discrepancies" or "Well, even if there is something wrong with it I have found it to be a blessing and it works for me" and even "I don't care if it's not really true, I LIKE it and so I'm going to stay with it."

It's sad, but it's another situation where people find something they like and will stick with it for that reason, and real, absolute Truth doesn't matter to them.

I'll pray for all your LDS family members. I'm sure the witness you both provide to them can be instrumental in leading them out of the darkness of Mormonism and to Christ.

[zionist45]

The Mormon church only outlawed polygamy after they were facing some real PC and legal problems with it and right on cue, a revelation was given that basically said it was a good thing but had to be stopped for now.

[JohnnyHye]

The Mormons did the same with their attitude towards blacks. After over a century of preaching as gospel truth that blacks are cursed with a dark skin and the sign of becoming "worthy" would be that their skin would lighten until they became "white and delightsome" like other worthy mormons, they were facing a lot of heat in the wake of the civil rights blacks fought for in the '60's and '70's. It was not until 1974 (1978 maybe?) that they finally had a "revelation" that blacks could now receive the "priesthood" in the Mormon church. Good timing, just when they were going to have big problems their god gave them a revelation that they were no longer a racist church! Funny but sad and pathetic at the same time.

[DukeStirr]

*Extra-Biblical text deleted by admin*

and as for polygamy, we find a scripture in the BoM that covers our stance PERFECTLY in just one scripture. Jacob had to condemn some people for practicing polygamy at a certain time, because it wasn't asked of them.
*Extra-Biblical text deleted by admin*

it's as simple as that. william law pleaded to j. smith before this was instituted, "Joseph, don't do this. We could be the most powerful christian church in the world." In remorse, Joseph replied, "I know William, I know... But whatever the Lord requires is right." perhaps he commanded Joseph Smith to practice this because there were more women and so that the church would grow more rapidly.

[vsi4Jesus]

DukeStirr, Did you even read the rules before you joined? [26]No cultic material - This is a Christian message board. Teaching that does not agree with the Bible is not to be promoted. This includes, but is not limited to, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, Scientology, Christian Identity, New Age, Shepherd's Chapel, Sacred Name Movements, and Seventh Day Advent teaching. Those who adhere to these beliefs are welcome to discuss Christianity in the Apologetics forum. (Gal 1:6-8)
You are citing from the Book of Mormon. I should know I used to be a Mormon.

[DukeStirr]

mormons not being christians is such a ridiculous statement. a christian is a follower of christ. i doubt any other church has such a group with such high morals and standards (by their fruits ye shall know them). I also question if there's a happier group in the world... and happiness is the object and design of our existence. i live my life to god. you can say what you want, but i know i follow him.

did you know that 1 out of every 1.7 scriptures in the Book of Mormon refers to Christ? No human being could possibly read the BoM from cover to cover on his knees with an open heart and believe that it was fabricated by man. the BoM was translated in less than 3 months!! most people couldn't even read a book of that length in such a short time.

i can throw some new testament scriptures if you'd like. i hope not to be contentious, but rather i only desire to protect the truth. if you want to know about Christ are you going to ask the Pharisees, or Judas -- or are you going to ask his disciples? one of my pet peeves is seeing people looking for sources on "mormonism" from people who are obviously partial against the church. if someone wants to know where mitt romney stands on his issues, are they going to procure information from Obama or Hilary supporters? well, here's some new testament scriptures:


"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." (Luke 6:26)

"the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." (John 16:2)

"Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not." (2 Peter 2: 11-12)

"speak evil of no man." (Titus 3:2)

I can't imagine God would be pleased with people putting down the beliefs of others and trying to win arguments in His favor. we're all on the same side here. ultimately, only christ can say who the real christians are.

[ChristianGal]

mormons not being christians is such a ridiculous statement. a christian is a follower of christ. i doubt any other church has such a group with such high morals and standards (by their fruits ye shall know them). I also question if there's a happier group in the world... and happiness is the object and design of our existence. i live my life to god. you can say what you want, but i know i follow him.

did you know that 1 out of every 1.7 scriptures in the Book of Mormon refers to Christ? No human being could possibly read the BoM from cover to cover on his knees with an open heart and believe that it was fabricated by man. the BoM was translated in less than 3 months!! most people couldn't even read a book of that length in such a short time.

i can throw some new testament scriptures if you'd like. i hope not to be contentious, but rather i only desire to protect the truth. if you want to know about Christ are you going to ask the Pharisees, or Judas -- or are you going to ask his disciples? one of my pet peeves is seeing people looking for sources on "mormonism" from people who are obviously partial against the church. if someone wants to know where mitt romney stands on his issues, are they going to procure information from Obama or Hilary supporters? well, here's some new testament scriptures:


"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." (Luke 6:26)

"the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." (John 16:2)

"Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not." (2 Peter 2: 11-12)

"speak evil of no man." (Titus 3:2)

I can't imagine God would be pleased with people putting down the beliefs of others and trying to win arguments in His favor. we're all on the same side here. ultimately, only christ can say who the real christians are.

Duke, With respect, I ask these questions of you:

Is the God you serve the same God I serve?
I believe that God is the Great I Am. He who always was and always will be. He is all knowing, all powerful and in all places at all times. He is the creator of all things and there was no one before Him.
It is my understanding that Mormons believe that God was originally a man who achieved God status. If this is what Mormons believe, then we are not talking about the same God.

Is the Jesus you serve the same Jesus I serve?
I believe that Jesus is God, part of the Holy Trinity who entered this earth through an imaculate conception, lived as a man but never sinned; shed his blood on the cross so that all who accept this precious gift and repent of their sins will have everlasting life in God's kingdom.

Do you believe that Jesus and Satan were brothers?
Jesus is God and Satan was an angel created by God so I don't know who this Jesus is that you are talking about.

Do you believe that if you live a good life and do the right things you can become a god as well?
I believe in one God and the trinity of one God and I believe I can never ever become a god of any type. God created me and loves me but I am not, nor ever will be his equal.

Mormons may call themselves christians, but we are worlds apart in our definition of what a christian is and who our God is.

While I'm happy you're here with us on RR-BB, it is not because I think you know something I don't know, but more it is with prayerful hope that you will realize that you need to get to know the real God and the real Jesus. Your life depends on it. There are no scriptures that you can quote (and especially out of context) that will ever get a Christian like me to accept the Mormon teachings. In my faith and according to the Word of the one and only true God, Mormon's are not Christians and will not be with God in heaven for all eternity unless they turn to Him and have a personal relationship with Him. Those who don't accept Jesus as their savior will go to hell...not because I say so, but because God says so.

I've not read the Book of Mormons, but I wonder why Mormons need their own book when God gave us His Book and that's all we need.

I hope you don't take this as an attack, for I assure you it is not intended as such. I just think it is important that you understand why Christians such as myself don't accept the Mormon view. It is also my heartfelt prayer that your eyes will be opened to the truth and come to know the real God so that you might truly be saved.

[vsi4Jesus]

[QUOTE=ChristianGal;73111]
I've not read the Book of Mormons, but I wonder why Mormons need their own book when God gave us His Book and that's all we need.

In the Mormon faith they have Articles of Faith. And one of them says We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God. Now why doesn't it say as far as it is translated correctly behind the Book of Mormon? They believe their founder Joseph Smith founded the true gospel. By the way my mother is a devout Mormon and she says there are errors in the Bible. I disagree with that completely. The Bible has no errors. The Book of Mormon is NOT the Word of God.

[ChristianGal]

[QUOTE=vsi4Jesus;73219]

I've not read the Book of Mormons, but I wonder why Mormons need their own book when God gave us His Book and that's all we need.

In the Mormon faith they have Articles of Faith. And one of them says We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God. Now why doesn't it say as far as it is translated correctly behind the Book of Mormon? They believe their founder Joseph Smith founded the true gospel. By the way my mother is a devout Mormon and she says there are errors in the Bible. I disagree with that completely. The Bible has no errors. The Book of Mormon is NOT the Word of God.

So basically the book of Mormon takes the stance that the Bible is not inerrant. Once one takes that stance, all bets are off and they are lost right out of the gate! I'm sorry to hear that your mother is caught up in what this false religion. That must be very painful to you. It's always hard for me to think that some of my loved ones are not saved, but I think it is harder to see a loved one trying to be a good Christian but are really part of a false religion.

I am not bashing Mormons or any of the other false religions we have discussed on this board, as some on the other side of this debate might believe. I believe it is our duty as followers of the true living God to spread the Good Word and help as many as possible find their way "home". I believe it is our job to witness to and pray for those who are lost and the rest is up to the individual and God.

I remember once when I was on business in Ann Arbor, MI, the hotel had a Book of Mormon in the drawer instead of the typical Gideon bible. I think it was a Marriott hotel, but it's been many years ago so I don't remember. I opened the book and started reading and immediately felt like I was reading a fairly tale. As a Christian I didn't believe a word of what little I read...it just didn't ring true to me. If people believe that a mere man like Joseph Smith has the lock on the true gospel, then by my standards of what determines a cult, Mormonism is a cult. Many will say that Mormons live a good, clean life and on the surface this does look true by human standards, but Jesus said that none of us are good, not one but the Father. His ways are not our ways and we can never be "good" without God.

All I can say is it saddens me terribly to know there are so many lost souls.

[vsi4Jesus]

ChristianGal here is a link: http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Mormon.html

Talks more about the Book of Mormon. I too am not bashing Mormons. I am trying to show that the Truth is the Bible and the Bible alone.

[DukeStirr]

I believe the Bible to be the word of God. admittedly, there is a little obscurity in it -- if this wasn't the case, then why are there over 80,000 different christian churches? if the bible is as perfect as some claim it is, wouldn't it set all the points clearly without reason to have doctrinal differences? We know that the bible has been translated MANY TIMES... carless scribes and translators have taken out some of the great treasures. there are even some 21 lost books that are referred to in the Bible that are not to be found or were never canonized. the KJV of the bible had over 50 people working on the translation for a couple of years... on words they didn't agree upon, we find the words being italicized... now as for the book of mormon, it was translated once!! that's it... it was translated by the power of the most high.

someone once said, "The Bible sits on the pulpit of hundres of different religous sects. The Book of Mormon, the record of Joseph (son of Jacob) verifies and clarifies the Bible. It removes stumbling blocks, it restores many plain and precious things. We testify that when used together, the Bible and the Book of Mormon confound false doctrines, LAY DOWN CONTENTIONS, and establish peace. We do not have to prove the Book of Mormon is true. The book is its own proof. All we need to do is read it and declare it! THE BOOK OF MORMON IS NOT ON TRIAL - the people of the world, including the members of the Church, are on trial as to what they will do with this second witness for Christ."

didn't Christ say that man shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God? to think people would COMPLAIN about RECEIVING MORE words of christ is puzzling to say the least.

In the Mormon faith they have Articles of Faith. And one of them says We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God. Now why doesn't it say as far as it is translated correctly behind the Book of Mormon?