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I have a question on John 2 about the wedding feast when Jesus turned the water into wine. Do you believe it was the alcoholic wine or grape juice? John 2:1-10
Wine Or Grape Juice
I have a question on John 2 about the wedding feast when Jesus turned the water into wine. Do you believe it was the alcoholic wine or grape juice? John 2:1-10
Wine.
If you'd really like to see a rabbi laugh out loud, ask him the last time he officiated at a Jewish wedding where they served non-alcoholic grape juice.
I have a link here that gives scriptures for this. http://www.christianlibrary.org/auth...stliv/wine.htm
Grape juice does not burst "wineskins" as mentioned several times in the bible. Grape juice is unfermented. I've heard the arguments and read the link above but there are too many scriptures to support wine as being alcoholic (describing people as drunk with wine, not grape juice for one). The non alcoholic arguments are unsupportable. The link above holds one of the weakest arguments I've seen.
Grape juice is just that - grape juice. Wine can be the new wine which has not been fermented and should not be put in old wineskins! But old wine is the fermented alcoholic wine.
I have to ask what your opinion is of Jesus filling six Large jars holding over 100 gallons with alcoholic wine and presenting that to a party that had obviously already drank the first six? Did Jesus contribute and condone their drunkenness? when other places in the Bible it denounces drunkenness. If they were drunk, how could he tell it was good wine?Originally Posted by LeafyTree
Can you give me some scripture to point to it being alcoholic wine?
The Greek word oinos allows for the possibility of unfermented grape juice, but the exact nature of the beverage isn't important to the passage anyways. Why do you ask?
....
It was wine but the alcohol content was probably around 1 or 2% in that time.
Not 13% like wine we have today.
Also in those times they would Boil grape juice down to a past or Jelly to preserve it for storing.
And it to was referred to as wine.
They didn't have refrigeration so they would ferment their Juice into wine so the Alcohol preserved it for people to drink it in safety .
the presence of the alcohol would kill bacteria.
Their is a scripture that refers to Drunk people as having lingered Long at their wine glass.
Proverbs -24..30 Those who linger long over wine, Those who go to taste mixed wine.
Which means you had to really want to get drunk and you had to drink alot to get drunk with wine that was only 1% Alcohol.
Wine.
I agree with that.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
--Albert Einstein
The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
(Psa 19:1b-2)
Agreed with those above who said it's a less-alcoholic wine than we think of now.
Remember, too, Paul's advice re: Timothy's stomach and infirmities:
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Timothy 5:23
You can't have "wine" without it being fermented...if it isn't fermented it's grape juice. My husband makes wine. The juice starts fermenting as soon as you let it start sitting with the full force of the taste taking weeks to come to it's ultimate taste. So the "new wine" is just fermented wine drank prior to the full flavor has set in....You cannot have Unfermented wine. Also you don't have to refrigerate wine to protect it...but it does need to be kept in a cool place like a room with AC.
I vote grape Juice-I don,t believe my Lord ever created anything with the least amount of alcohol in it.
I,m a fool for Christ,whose fool are you ???
I haven't heard of such a low percentage. I recall something closer to 5-6% (similar to beer/ale).
As for the OP, Jesus made WINE, not juice.
It's a GIRL!
Grapes will ferment without any action by people. Grape skins have yeasts built right into them. They can actually ferment on the vine.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
--Albert Einstein
The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
(Psa 19:1b-2)
That may be,but I am speaking about the "wine" Jesus instantly created at the cana marriage in John 2:1-11 only.That was grape juice! I admit the natural tendency of grape juice is to ferment easily and become wine.This proccess of fermentation is acted upon through the influence of sin in our world.Jesus made grape juice!
I,m a fool for Christ,whose fool are you ???
and if you watch bees, wasps and birds, when grapes, apples, pears, or any fruit falls off the trees or branches, if the fruit has been on the ground for a few hours, those insects and birds will be "drunk" and staggering and won't be able to fly. I see it all the time...
I have to disagree here. In vs 10 and 11 it plainly states that the good wine is brought forth first until everyone has had plenty to drink....then they would bring out the less than best wine because by then everyone would be so tipsy and/or drunk they wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
However, in this case by Jesus turning the water into wine, the govenor of the feast noticed that this wine was better than the first which was served last.10And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
11This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
By doing this miracle...it set a standard by which Jesus was known... jmho
PS...there is absolutely nothing wrong with alcohol...its the "abuse" of it that makes it a sin.
Last edited by Buzzardhut; January 7th, 2010 at 10:13 PM.
The scriptures do not tell us that there was drunkenness.
We could also turn your question round and ask you to provide scripture showing that it was grape juice. Perhaps best not to build an argument on an assumption. The very low alcohol wine made at the time appears to be a good fit.
Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right. - Charles H. Spurgeon
Well Linda I can,t explain vs 10-11.This is just an issue that there are we will not know the truth until we reach heaven,but it makes no sense that the sinless Jesus would make
a drink that causes people to lose visual acuity,mental loss,bodily motor control,ravings,fighting,vomiting,cirrhosis of the liver,blackouts and dying brain cells.To me it,s unthinkable my Jesus would make that!!
There has to be another explanation!!
I,m a fool for Christ,whose fool are you ???
When I was in South America I sometimes had a fermented beverage called guarapo. It was essentially sugar cane juice. It would start to ferment naturally, and it would taste better and better until the fermentation level went beyond optimal, then it wasn't so tasty... then the batch would run out and you would start over. I would just guess that the alcohol content of the wine Jesus created from water was probably somewhere from 5 to 15%... after all, it was at it's best, so the alcohol content was probably whatever made for the best tasting wine.
Tall Timbers
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