I have a question about 1 Corinthians 11:5

[countrycowgirl]

I came across this verse and I need help, are we (women) supposed to wear something over our hair when we pray?


1 Corinthians 11:4-6 (King James Version)

4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+11:4-6&version=KJV

[Mitsy]

A woman's covering is a man and for men it is Christ. It's in the verse right before it.

1CO 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Not a physical covering. A spiritual one.

[millky]

So does that mean that a woman has to be with a man when she prays? Or do you go along the line and say that since men are covered by Christ and women are covered by men that women are therefore also covered by Christ. If that makes sense. Which it should because we're all Christians before we're male or female.

I've read a lot of viewpoints on that verse and I'm still not really sure what it actually says. I don't think women are required to literally cover their heads as that sounds more like an OT Law sort of thing. Because we live in the age of grace it shouldn't matter if we put a covering on to pray or not.

The spiritual covering interpretation makes a lot of sense though and I think you can also fit it in to the "pray without ceasing + cover when you pray = cover all the time" idea. We are ALWAYS covered by Christ's sacrifice on the cross every moment of our Christian lives, even if we're not in prayer.

[countrycowgirl]

A woman's covering is a man and for men it is Christ. It's in the verse right before it.



Not a physical covering. A spiritual one.

Thanks Millky and Mitsy, It kinda makes sense, but in 1CO 11:4 it says
4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. KJV Sorry I'm trying to understand.

[carrieb]

Here is a teaching on this subject from John MacArthur
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Study+Guide+Chapter/54-16

Hope this helps!

[Mitsy]

So does that mean that a woman has to be with a man when she prays? Or do you go along the line and say that since men are covered by Christ and women are covered by men that women are therefore also covered by Christ. If that makes sense. Which it should because we're all Christians before we're male or female.

I've read a lot of viewpoints on that verse and I'm still not really sure what it actually says. I don't think women are required to literally cover their heads as that sounds more like an OT Law sort of thing. Because we live in the age of grace it shouldn't matter if we put a covering on to pray or not.

The spiritual covering interpretation makes a lot of sense though and I think you can also fit it in to the "pray without ceasing + cover when you pray = cover all the time" idea. We are ALWAYS covered by Christ's sacrifice on the cross every moment of our Christian lives, even if we're not in prayer.

It's about attitude not the physical presence of your husband or father by your side as you pray. Feminists have got it wrong. We are still under the headship of men despite the fact the Lord values women as much as He does men.

Think about circumcision. Paul talks about physical circumcision as being nothing it is the heart thet needs to be circumcised.

RO 2:28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

Jesus humbled himself to the Lord. We are to humble ourselves as well. Even Jesus who was God humbled himself to his parents when he was a young boy. There is order and authority in God's kingdom. We have been given an order here on Earth. Humbling yourself and staying within that order is how we obey God and remain in Him.

Hope that made sense.

[ophelon]

I need to post more... I need 15 posts to put in a link to my pastors sermon on it. PM me if you would like it I guess?

[countrycowgirl]

Here is a teaching on this subject from John MacArthur
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Study+Guide+Chapter/54-16

Hope this helps!

Thanks I'm going to read it now

[millky]

It's about attitude not the physical presence of your husband or father by your side as you pray. Feminists have got it wrong. We are still under the headship of men despite the fact the Lord values women as much as He does men.

Think about circumcision. Paul talks about physical circumcision as being nothing it is the heart thet needs to be circumcised.



Jesus humbled himself to the Lord. We are to humble ourselves as well. Even Jesus who was God humbled himself to his parents when he was a young boy. There is order and authority in God's kingdom. We have been given an order here on Earth. Humbling yourself and staying within that order is how we obey God and remain in Him.

Hope that made sense.

Had to think that through for a moment but yes I think I get what you're saying. Ta

[ophelon]

Oops, sorry - I can't send PM's until I get 20 posts... This makes #11 for me lol.
You can find the sermon under the Media tab at harvestpa dot org
Despite the names, the subject is covered on the September 6th - So Much Glory, So Little Time.

[countrycowgirl]

Here is a teaching on this subject from John MacArthur
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Study+Guide+Chapter/54-16

Hope this helps!

That makes sense, Thanks

Oops, sorry - I can't send PM's until I get 20 posts... This makes #11 for me lol.
You can find the sermon under the Media tab at harvestpa dot org
Despite the names, the subject is covered on the September 6th - So Much Glory, So Little Time.

Thanks I'll go check it out

[OtherSideOfTheBoat]

There is a lot of false teaching in the church today about this one. It's really straight forward. A woman should have her head covered with a hat, scarf, etc. or she should have long hair. Look at verse 15, "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering."

[millky]

How long is 'long'? To the shoulders? Waist? Or is it just whatever counts as long hair based on the time you live in?

I don't really get why short hair is considered less of a covering than long hair and needs a scarf or hat What are we covering? If we're just covering our heads then short hair will do. A person only has so much scalp. So why long hair?

there must be some deeper dimension to it than just the length of your hair. Which is kind of why I lean towards the more spiritual interpretation of these verses. Putting something as important as obedience and submission to God in terms of how you wear your hair seems kind of odd unless it has some other meaning. I'm also confused about why men don't have to cover (in fact it is seen as an abomination to God for them to do this) but women do, and in such a specific manner.

[Mitsy]

There is a lot of false teaching in the church today about this one. It's really straight forward. A woman should have her head covered with a hat, scarf, etc. or she should have long hair. Look at verse 15, "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering."

Had to cut my hair really short it has fallen out a lot with sickness. So legalistically I am without a covering?

I am so glad I understand I live under GRACE and NOT LAW!

The other thing is I refuse to wear a scarf. I'm not a muslim.

[millky]

Had to cut my hair really short it has fallen out a lot with sickness. So legalistically I am without a covering?

I am so glad I understand I live under GRACE and NOT LAW!

The other thing is I refuse to wear a scarf. I'm not a muslim.

I agree with this. We're not under the Law anymore so it shouldn't matter whether we have short hair, long hair, no hair, purple hair or fur.

Also I am sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be able to correct me, but weren't these instructions written specifically for the church in Corinth because it had been straying from the narrow path? I had imagined that this and it's related verses were put in place there like as a symbolic show of obedience and submission to God's word. Putting them back on track so to speak. I honestly don't have the time to check up on this as I have a million lessons to plan atm but am I right or wrong about this?

[ophelon]

I agree with this. We're not under the Law anymore so it shouldn't matter whether we have short hair, long hair, no hair, purple hair or fur.

Also I am sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be able to correct me, but weren't these instructions written specifically for the church in Corinth because it had been straying from the narrow path? I had imagined that this and it's related verses were put in place there like as a symbolic show of obedience and submission to God's word. Putting them back on track so to speak. I honestly don't have the time to check up on this as I have a million lessons to plan atm but am I right or wrong about this?

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[OtherSideOfTheBoat]

Had to cut my hair really short it has fallen out a lot with sickness. So legalistically I am without a covering?

I am so glad I understand I live under GRACE and NOT LAW!

The other thing is I refuse to wear a scarf. I'm not a muslim.

This is not from the law. 1 Corinthians was written in the age of grace.

[Mitsy]

This is not from the law. 1 Corinthians was written in the age of grace.

Neverthe less we are not to make Laws under the age of Grace. Read Romans & Galations.

If your leaglism is right Churches have fallen short of this one for many years.

Jesus said the following:-

MK 7:14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him `unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him `unclean.' "

MK 7:17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him `unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

MK 7:20 He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him `unclean.' 21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man `unclean.' "

I'm sure God sees my heart.

COL 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

COL 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

[OtherSideOfTheBoat]

This is not something that I made up. It is a New Testament commandment given by God. God is not legalistic.

[Mitsy]

This is not something that I made up. It is a New Testament commandment given by God. God is not legalistic.

Exactly God isn't legalistic. However man can use commandments to tie upother Christians in a legalistic fashion. I don't give up the freedom of Grace God has given me to those who would use commandments in a legalistic fashion.

I reapeat the following scripture to you. If you have love and mercy for your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ you will undertstand what is being said here. Rather than just taking a particular vers that enables you to ensalve your fellow Christian.

COL 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

COL 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

The other thing is you refuse to see the scripture you quoted in context. You have missed it's meaning. Paul says the head of a woman is man and the head of man is Christ. The whole teaching has NOTHING to do with wearing something to APPEAR holy or honourable. It has to do with God's appointed authority structure here on Earth.

You are actually incorrect with your interpretation of the scripture.

You know it would be easier for me to wear a hat to Church on the weekend then to concede spiritual authority to a man escpcially to someone who is less mature than I am in God's Word.

1CO 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

CO 11:11 In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

EPH 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

EPH 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

It has to do with spiritual headship, not physical clothing. However that is totally lost on you. Which doesn't matter I've spelt it out and I hope you will one day figure it out for yourself.