The Gun Toter's thread

[NewWorldOrder]

I just bought myself a new S&W M&P 9mm handgun. This is my first gun, and I looked and tried out several different guns before deciding on this one. Actually, this was the only one that fit my hand well (I have small hands),and I could actually press the slide lock without any difficulty. My question is, what is the best way to learn to be a good proficient shooter w/o spending tons of money? I plan on taking a concealed weapons class, but they don't spend a lot of time teaching to use your gun, although it is a 10 hour class. Should I get a private instructor (lots of money) or will going to the range and practicing sufficient (cheaper option). I will spend the money if I need to, not a problem.

There is a place not too far from my house, that has an all day's hunters course which teaches mostly gun safety, I'm not sure yet about proper gun use.

BTW, my DH will be getting a new gun too, so we'll be doing this together. Also, I've already put the cable lock on my gun, and put it away, and given the the kids the 411 on guns, though i really only need to worry about the youngest. They will, of course, be learning about proper use and safety precautions of guns as well; for all of you who are anti-gun.

[Zaphnathpaaneah]

I just bought myself a new S&W M&P 9mm handgun. This is my first gun, and I looked and tried out several different guns before deciding on this one. Actually, this was the only one that fit my hand well (I have small hands),and I could actually press the slide lock without any difficulty. My question is, what is the best way to learn to be a good proficient shooter w/o spending tons of money?

OK, I don't give advice, but......here's what I think:


If you have a few $ to spend, consider one of these, or even a cheaper model like it:

http://www.lpstactical.com/gv1000minivault.htm


The will safely keep the gun away from kids (and to a certain extent burgulars) yet you can have a LOADED gun in your hand in four seconds if needed. It also may (I don't give legal advice!) meet a standard of due diligence as far as showing you took reasonable precautions to stay of of any trouble.


Next, a hunter safety course gives good info about gun safety in general and local laws, but not necessarily range time, or much time dedicated to hand gun use. I think the concealed handgun course would be really good. It has to include range time. (I wish I could take this class. I live in the P.R.K. where only criminals are allowed to carry concealed weapons.)


After this course, I think you will have the skills to go on a range and practice, practice, practice! If you're going to own a gun, you really, really need to spend the time to become proficient (and safe). 9MM ammo is about the cheapest you can buy in a handgun caliber.


If you are going to carry concealed, you need to get to the point where you are so familar that you would feel naked without taking your gun with you (do you plan on carrying ?). You would also need to ensure that your gun can shoot 100 rounds minimum without a single malfunction in the type of ammo you will be using while carrying (hollow-points, nothing less in a 9mm for self defense).

Beyond this, GO OUT AND HAVE FUN! THAT THING IS REALLY ADDICTING!

[Chris72]

We have a few ranges withing 30 miles of where I live, one of them offers one on one training, and another offers classes. The classes range from beginner to tactical use of handguns, these classes are all around $100.

It might be worth it to check out all ranges to see what they have to offer.

[Joseph The Carpenter]

So far your off to a good start by finding a firearm that fits your hand, take the carry saftey class, go to the range and ask questions, gun people are very friendly. gun vaults are great. treat every gun as if it is loaded even if you think it is empty, never point it at anything you don't want to kill even the TV. good luck and please pm if you have any questions

[BamaM14Shooter]

My question is, what is the best way to learn to be a good proficient shooter w/o spending tons of money?

One of the biggest things to do to save money is something you've already done. 9mm is usually one of the cheapest center fire cartridges that you can buy. Use the FMJ for practice, but make sure you use hollow points, Corbon's, Hydro-shocks, etc. for defense.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=347122

I plan on taking a concealed weapons class, but they don't spend a lot of time teaching to use your gun, although it is a 10 hour class. Should I get a private instructor (lots of money) or will going to the range and practicing sufficient (cheaper option). I will spend the money if I need to, not a problem.

IDPA might be something for you to look into. There used to be a club around here, and they were very friendly and helpful to newcomers, even those who had almost zero experience with firearms. They will focus on safety and on practical skills that you might need when you carry a handgun. You would be amazed at how much you can learn and improve within two hours of time.
http://www.idpa.com/clubs.asp

I've already put the cable lock on my gun, and put it away, and given the the kids the 411 on guns, though i really only need to worry about the youngest. They will, of course, be learning about proper use and safety precautions of guns as well; for all of you who are anti-gun.

How quickly can you remove that cable lock? Set an alarm for 0130 or 0200, then time yourself on getting out of bed, your head cleared and removing the cable lock. You might not like what you learn if you do this. In my experience, if you take kids shooting every time they wish to go, they quickly learn that firearms are dangerous if mishandled and firearms lose their "mystique" after you've been around them for awhile. When my daughter was young, I would have firearms all around the house in various states of repair. At the time I worked on them quite a bit as a hobby. There weren't any laying around loaded, but even with that she wouldn't pick any of them up or try to play with them. She wasn't scared of them, mind you, but she knew that they could be dangerous if mishandled. I had plenty of friends that had the same experience with their kids. You know your kids better than I do though, but remember that locks can be dangerous too if you can't get them unlocked quickly when you need to. You can get creative on how you store them, too. For instance, I know people who have holsters bolted into the dry wall above the inside of their closet doors. As long as the kids don't see you mounting the holster or taking the pistol out of it, it should be safely out of reach but easily accessible to you if you need it in a hurry.

[NewWorldOrder]

Wow! Great input from everyone. We have looked at those safes, and will probably get one. I've been checking around for classes, and there is an NRA Basic Pistols course offered here, but I'll have to drive a little ways. I agree that taking the course would be better, but it's going to cost us. It's $100 for the course, another $100 for the CHL course, and then $140 for the license. So, for both of us we're looking at $680. If you include the guns - $1600. I also want my kids to take some courses, but I don't know if I can aford that right now. They may just have to learn as we learn for now. Although, I did find a local Rifle and Pistol club here that has a youth program, so I need to check them out.

Bama, I did get some hollowpoint ammo, but boy, they were expensive. I paid twice as much for fewer shells. Now, I just need to get good at loading the magazine. It's a little difficult. I still haven't loaded the gun yet, I'm not ready yet. I'll wait till I get to the range.

[Byrd]

Good choice of weapons. A handgun is not that easy to master, as it takes dedication and lots of practice to be proficient with one. All the above posts are right on, and something that I would add in becoming familiar with your new Smith is to carry it unloaded, concealed in the holster of your choice, around the house as you become used to it. At first it will feel odd, but in the words of Clint Smith, "A handgun is not supposed to be comfortable, is is supposed to be comforting." Get a subscription to "The American Handgunner" magazine. It has tips by experts on the sport, and equipment reviews, and you will learn much from it.

As to practice, one of the most valuable forms of practice is to dry fire your weapon at home. MAKE SURE IT IS UNLOADED. Pick a spot on the wall and spend a few minutes every day practicing sight alignment and trigger control. When you go to the range, ask the Range Officer for help. Shooters are a very friendly bunch, and they will be glad to help

At the range, do not shoot huge volumes of ammo, shoot a box of 50, practicing what you have learned from your dry fire @ home, and have another shooter critique you as to grip & stance, etc. By shooting so few rounds you will not get tired and develop bad habits.

Get one of those hand squeezer exercise things, and daily ust it on both hands to develop your grip. It will help in controling recoil and help you get on target for your follow up shots.

Welcome to the sport. You will love it, and be careful, and safe. Keep you finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire, and never point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy.

[Dee]

Wow! Great input from everyone. We have looked at those safes, and will probably get one. I've been checking around for classes, and there is an NRA Basic Pistols course offered here, but I'll have to drive a little ways. I agree that taking the course would be better, but it's going to cost us. It's $100 for the course, another $100 for the CHL course, and then $140 for the license. So, for both of us we're looking at $680. If you include the guns - $1600. I also want my kids to take some courses, but I don't know if I can aford that right now. They may just have to learn as we learn for now. Although, I did find a local Rifle and Pistol club here that has a youth program, so I need to check them out.

Bama, I did get some hollowpoint ammo, but boy, they were expensive. I paid twice as much for fewer shells. Now, I just need to get good at loading the magazine. It's a little difficult. I still haven't loaded the gun yet, I'm not ready yet. I'll wait till I get to the range.

I would add to check and see which eye is dominant. Most left handed people have a dominant left eye. Most right have a right eye dominant. To find out do this: use your forefinger and point to the corner of the room where the walls and ceiling meet. Close your left eye. Does your forefinger still point to that spot? If so then you're left eye dominant. Then close your right eye. Does it still point to that spot? Then you're right eye dominant. You're gonna have problems if your dominant eye is opposite of your dominant hand (cross dominant).

Are you wanting to target shoot for competiton or for enjoyment and self defense? I ask because I have problems because I'm EXTREMELY right eye dominant. Good on one hand because I'm right handed but bad because it's overly dominant. Also, I can no longer wear contacts and have to wear glasses and they're bifocals. Anyway, I went to my opthamologist and had prescription safety glasses made specifically for shooting. Much better.

I think as my vision has gotten worse over the years my right eye had gotten more and more dominant because I used to not have the problems below until I got older. Age. ACK!!

With pistols and revolvers (unless it's large enough for a scope) I have problems with lines on targets. I used to use those targets with a black human figure then filled with white lines and bullseyes etc. Ack! I shoot in at a range near Ft. Benning and got to take lessons from a former range instructor there.

He had me put a patch over my right eye and use my left to shoot with. However, don't try to make a weaker eye more dominant because it may mess with your overall vision. Wasn't pleasant. Also, experimented with stances.

Another trick was for him to put a fluorescent dot placed to fool my right eye a bit. This sounds silly since it's usually cross dominance that is the problem. He told me me he rarely saw people who were right handed and had a right eye be "over dominant" so to speak.

Anyway, then he took away the targets and put out just big sheets of plain target paper. Then he'd put about ten pistols on ten different lanes and he'd use a stop watch. I didn't know which lane he'd pick or how long he'd take in between etc. He'd yell "Lane 5 middle of the target." and I'd run to lane 5, pick up the pistol and double tap to the center without actually aiming through the sites. Then I'd wait until he yelled again. Might be five seconds or a minute. Then he'd yell another lane and I'd get to that lane and pick up the pistol and double tap to where ever he said (usually head top of target, chest middle of target, or groin down below). I got to where I could very quickly pick up a pistol and double tap two almost right on top of each other.

Then after that. He'd have me holster whichever pistol he wanted me to use and practice drawing and firing it the same way. I never knew when he was going to yell for me to draw and which area I was to double tap.

Then he used targets with just plain black human outlines. No lines. Did the same routine.

Worked my butt to the bone.

Then he took me to a range where they have targets pop up. They will either be friendly or foe and you have to draw and shoot in so much time or they'll lay back down and you've lost your shot. That was fun. When we were in that scenario he told me to scan my 9, 12, and 3 positions and let my eyes be a little unfocused. Said I'd catch movement better and already be moving so that when a target started to pop up I'd be better able to go after it faster. Worked too.

He worked me so hard I had to get a shooting glove because of blisters on my hand. I still take lessons from him about once a year and he still works my tail to the bone.

Didn't have any problems with a rifle and scope for obvious reasons.

Shotguns are pretty hard to miss and are up close and personal.

My basic goal was not to competition shoot but to shoot for pleasure and for self defense. Anyway, the key to shooting good is to stop being so mechanical on the range and loosen up and have fun. Which was what his exercises had taught me.

I have certain pistols/revolvers which are solely used as self defense weapons (I carry them and/or have them in my house in rooms for a quick grab for self defense) and those I practice drawing from a holster or picking up quickly (say I had to grab a gun from my nightstand drawer) etc. and I always shoot these at the range and do the double tap on a target with a black outline of a human body. I can usually drill two either almost on top of each other or right beside each other to the head, torso (heart area) and groin.

I have other pistols/revolvers I just like to play around with and shoot at the range, however, they are not my self defense handguns.

Oh and another thing he did which helped me was to stand behind me and I never knew when but he'd throw out paper plates like frisbees and I had to double tap them. I never knew in which direction he'd throw them, where the wind would move them or when he'd throw them. That really gets your reflexes and muscle memory to work. It's also a good way to show how scanning your 9, 12 and 3 position with slightly unfocused eyes can cause you to zero in on the slightest movement very quickly.

I'm supposed to take lessons from him for the month of September. I'm interested to see what he's gonna come up with this time.

He's expensive but worth it.

However, I've just told you everything he had me pay for him to tell me.

[NewWorldOrder]

Byrd, Dee - thanks for the advice, and good it is too. I have already put about 200 rounds into my new gun, twice at the range and once in the country at my dad's place. For a novice shooter, I'm actually a pretty good shot. I must take after my dad, he shot master expert in the Marines. We really are having a good time with it, in fact we're going to the range again tomorrow to practice. I think we're going to sign up for a CHL class here in the next week or two.

Dee, I have to ask, how old are you and is 38 (almost 39) too old to learn those defensive techniques you keep talking about? I think it would be so cool to be able to kick ###, especially in these times we live in. Just tonight two men got into a fight down the street from us, my 7 year old saw the whole thing. One guy had a garage door come down on his head, another guy told him he was going to kill him and smashed a glass into his face. The cops were there, a fire truck and an ambulance were there, and I'm assuming somebody was arrested. I think I want to move. This is why we have gotten the guns. I never really wanted them before, but all of a sudden, I have just gotten it in my head that we need them. My husband is very happy about my conversion.

[Dee]

Byrd, Dee - thanks for the advice, and good it is too. I have already put about 200 rounds into my new gun, twice at the range and once in the country at my dad's place. For a novice shooter, I'm actually a pretty good shot. I must take after my dad, he shot master expert in the Marines. We really are having a good time with it, in fact we're going to the range again tomorrow to practice. I think we're going to sign up for a CHL class here in the next week or two.

Dee, I have to ask, how old are you and is 38 (almost 39) too old to learn those defensive techniques you keep talking about? I think it would be so cool to be able to kick ###, especially in these times we live in. Just tonight two men got into a fight down the street from us, my 7 year old saw the whole thing. One guy had a garage door come down on his head, another guy told him he was going to kill him and smashed a glass into his face. The cops were there, a fire truck and an ambulance were there, and I'm assuming somebody was arrested. I think I want to move. This is why we have gotten the guns. I never really wanted them before, but all of a sudden, I have just gotten it in my head that we need them. My husband is very happy about my conversion.

Nope. I'm 45 and still learning. You're never too old to learn.

Yuck about your neighorhood. I'd most definitely have me more than a few in the house.

So are ya right eye or left eye or cross eye dominant?

[Wally]

Gun Safety

Looks like a lot of good advice here.
If I may add:
for beginners, start with .22 bolt actions (Marlins are low-cost and fine but be careful if bought used), and get a Boy Scouts Rifleman Merit badge book.
Then find a farm - range - someplace you can practice.
Check local laws - police or NRA, I had 3 different cops say 3 different things about my handgun permit.
Again SAFETY is Number one. Get someone experienced to help you expecially if just starting yourself. The NRA is dedicated to training and safety. Their courses are well worth it. I personally know of a couple experienced shooters who were wounded in their own homes(accidents) so training and practice is good for anyone.

As for home security I prefer a dog first, gives me time to cock and sight in.

Other safe practices - use according to your threat/children situation:
keep loaded clips out of the gun if possible
By a single action automatic like a 1911A1 .45 cal or a single action western type revolver - they must be cocked for first shot (western - every shot).
Get a shotgun and use a t-block, you break a strap and remove block from action so that gun can be cycled.
Moving may be a last option, and S Carolina has been suggested for all Bible Believers. I guess Bob-Jones Univ. would become the Capitol.

Seriously, keep asking questions and treat EVERY gun as Loaded. I even had my son treat his cap and water guns properly - no faces, keep away from ears, don't leave them outside...yea right... Be serious but have some fun too.

[run2Jesus]

States seek to crack down on fake firearms

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354071,00.html

[run2Jesus]

NASHVILLE, Tenn. — Concerns that realistic-looking toy weapons are confusing police and threatening safety have led 15 states to try going beyond gun control and cracking down on fake firearms.

Officer Micheal Hoover knows a fair amount about guns as a sniper instructor for a Tennessee SWAT team. He recalls the night two years ago when a car pulled up beside him on a highway and the passenger waved what looked like an Uzi.

"It scared me," he said. "If anyone is in their right mind, I don't see how it wouldn't."

Hoover was off duty and called for police help. A 20-year-old man was charged with aggravated assault after police found a black plastic Uzi submachine gun under the car's passenger seat, but he was acquitted because jurors felt the officer should have been able to tell it was only a toy.

Lawmakers across the country are coming to a different conclusion, deciding that it is so hard to differentiate the toys from the fakes that public safety demands they take action.

Among those 15 states, seven bills limiting fake guns are pending this year and 21 have been enacted since 1990, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Some states have enacted or are considering multiple measures. They range from prohibiting imitation firearms in vehicles to banning the toys from convenience stores.

more at above link....

[frodo82801]

You can see why there's concern. You'll find many stories like this one.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/...599967,00.html

West Memphis Police Chief Bob Paudert said his officers were on surveillance in an unrelated matter at the Steeplechase Apartments near Holiday Inn around 10 p.m., when the child appeared.

"The child had a toy pistol that looked identical to a real weapon. He did have a toy pistol with him and the officer saw it and fired shots. Two shots, I think," Paudert said. "It's a very tragic an unfortunate incident that happened."

[manytears]

it is a shame this world has gotten to this point. I remember cowboys and indians as a child. My grandsons love to play with toy guns and play soldiers, or cops or anything like this.

But we went out to eat one day a week or so ago and I wouldn't let them take them in the car with us for this reason. I was afraid with all the drive by's and road rage etc that that could get us in trouble or danger. They didn't really understand... they said wouldn't the people know they are toys? I said no. They are only 6 and 7 and didn't understand.

But I do let them play with them at home. Boys like to play with toy guns and knives and swords. They always have. Ever since I can remember.

I told my husband it won't be long before they won't be selling them anymore, and then I see this thread so it probably will happen. Toy guns will be banned. And then it won't be long they take away our rights to own a gun. First one and then the other.