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  • Wisconsin tries to pass a concealed carry law almost every year, but our governor believes that all the crazies who own guns (and he owns several himself) will run around killing everyone who doesn't own or carry a gun.

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    • That shows that he is very uninformed. In Kansas we had to pass a background check by the KBI & be fingerprinted. Send him a copy of the book More Guns, Less Crime by John Lott. He is an attorney who researched the effect that legal CCW had on the rise of crime...the result; in EVERY state that passed it violent crime went DOWN! I guess the bad guys don't want any resistance?
      sigpic From Above Only And Not Beneath

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      • Man! I get away from the computer for a couple of days and this thread takes on a life of it's own!

        Brother Byrd, excellent advice for NWO on the 4 gun safety rules!

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        • Byrd thanks for the thoughtful reply. I can't be dogmatic on this issue. It is a tough call. Maybe again if I felt threatened were I live I might feel differently.

          What about missionaries carring guns in dangerous mission fields? Many missionaries over the years have layed down their lives? They would never entertain the idea of defending themselves with a gun. They rely on the Lord to defend themselves.

          What about the Christian girl at columbine high school in CO who became a martyr for Christ? Look how she touched the world for Christ.

          If someone broke into my house and I had one of my guns loaded and available I guess I too would consider using it? I am not trying to be holier than thou here but I do think this is a healthy discussion.

          We do know Jesus did not run or fight back....11 of the 12 disciples all died as martyrs as well. I do think we are called to lay down our lives if called to do so are we not?
          Jesus is coming now at "Any Moment"! Are you ready?

          Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

          Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem. Amen.

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          • WVBORN56, perhaps I might be able to help you out here. One of the biggest insults for christians in the bible can be found in 1Tim5:8. It says that if we dont provide for our families, that we have denied our faith and are worse than infidels. One of the most important things we can provide for our families is protection. Also, if we allow someone to maim or kill us, as providers of our families we cannot allow that to happen.

            I hope this helps,
            Joe

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            • Live in Australia so no weapons allowed guns or knives or other dangerous weapons.

              However, I do have according to God's Word Angels watching over me. Since they aren't visible to the human eye I guess you could call them concealed weapons.

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              • Originally posted by Mitsy View Post
                Live in Australia so no weapons allowed guns or knives or other dangerous weapons.

                However, I do have according to God's Word Angels watching over me. Since they aren't visible to the human eye I guess you could call them concealed weapons.
                Are there any murders in your country?
                How do you cut your food if you do not have any knives?
                Are there any criminals who have weapons, gun knives, sticks, stones?
                I do not want to start an arguement just curious

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                • WVBorn56,
                  You are correct, this a tough call, and I will agree that carrying a concealed weapon is not for everyone. It takes dedication and training.

                  Your thought on the Martyrs is a good and valid one. I guess my thinking on that is that I would die for Christ, but I will not die at the hands of a violent felon! When someone in our society commits a crime, they do their time and are released, more often than not to repeat what they have done before.

                  In my case, I was mugged for money, not for the cause of Christ. Whoever did it is free to do it again, as they were never caught. In the two cases concerning the women I knew, the individuals that attacked them are free to do it again.

                  A good example of this is O.J. Simpson...did he or did he not? His actions in Las Vegas show that he was free to weild a weapon against others. If justice had been done in the first place, that would not have happened, not to mention the millions of dollars his hijinks have cost taxpayers!

                  Multiply that case by the hundreds and you will see my point, the guilty go free to prey again.

                  I think the issue is not martyerdom, but self defense against those who have no morals or conscience. I will admit, that having been a victim, I am very prejudiced on this subject.

                  Thanks for your thought provoking post!
                  sigpic From Above Only And Not Beneath

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                  • Originally posted by Joseph The Carpenter View Post
                    Are there any murders in your country?
                    How do you cut your food if you do not have any knives?
                    Are there any criminals who have weapons, gun knives, sticks, stones?
                    I do not want to start an arguement just curious
                    Jo

                    Fair question!

                    Yes unfortunately we do have murders. Just because they are illegal doesn't mean that there aren't criminals who have them (illegally of course). However the strick laws against weapons means that a cop can arrest someone just for possessing a weapon. Easier to get a conviction because the illegal possession of a gun certainly means that they had intent to murder.

                    We had a first massacre many years ago in a tourist spot in Tasmania called Port Arthur (the guys name was Martin Bryant) which brought in the anti-gun laws here. No indiscrimnant massacres since so I guess it is working to an extent.

                    There are a certain types of knives that are specifically illegal like flick knives. Yes we can have our steak knives just not carry it in your handbag and threaten anyone with it. Even pepper spray is illegal for civilians to carry. So many of my girlfriends carry hairspray or spray on deodorant in their bags instead.

                    I believe our anti-gun laws certainly are keeping guns out of the hands of the young kids. Teenagers mostly commit crimes with knives. They can't take out a whole room of people and have to commit their crimes close up to their victim. If you are far enough away you have a chance to run or if there are enough tough guys around they could tackle them (this is higly dangerous and not recommended).

                    I grew up before the gun laws came in. I was taught to shoot from a very young age and went hunting. However, it is one thing to kill a wild boar or rabbit than it is to shoot a person. Not that I have shot anyone, but I don't think I could use a gun to defend myself. I have used both rifle and handguns.

                    I have no problems taking a heavy object and hitting someone unconscious to defend myself. Grew up in the country with lots of boy cousins so I know how to defend myself. I've had to a number of times in the city when I was in my early twenties while travelling home on public transport. I don't travel on public transport these days I drive to where I have to go now and pay for parking.
                    Last edited by Mitsy; December 25th, 2007, 12:52 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by Mitsy View Post
                      Easier to get a conviction because the illegal possession of a gun certainly means that they had intent to murder.
                      Isn't that a very broad assumption?

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                      • Originally posted by NewWorldOrder View Post
                        Isn't that a very broad assumption?
                        I'm not a trying a legal case so my assumption can be as broad as it likes.

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                        • They're trying to do that here in America too by degrees. Trying to make simple possession of a weapon equate to you wanting to do someone harm. The fact that so many people are freaked out if they know you own a gun (much less carry one) means they're succeeding.
                          Last edited by zhan; December 26th, 2007, 02:41 PM.
                          -------------------------------------
                          www.needGod.com by Living Waters / Ray Comfort
                          Hell's Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort / Living Waters
                          This guy has some awesome sermons:
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                          or to shortcut to a *great* series: The Final Countdown Youtube playlist by Billy Crone

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                          • Originally posted by Mitsy View Post
                            I'm not a trying a legal case so my assumption can be as broad as it likes.
                            Amazing.

                            I found this article from an Australian newspaper dated Oct. 2006.
                            Buyback has no effect on murder rate

                            HALF a billion dollars spent buying back hundreds of thousands of guns after the Port Arthur massacre had no effect on the homicide rate, says a study published in an influential British journal.

                            The report by two Australian academics, published in the British Journal of Criminology, said statistics gathered in the decade since Port Arthur showed gun deaths had been declining well before 1996 and the buyback of more than 600,000 mainly semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns had made no difference in the rate of decline.

                            http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...455665717.html
                            Last edited by NewWorldOrder; December 26th, 2007, 11:44 AM.

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                            • Originally posted by NewWorldOrder View Post
                              Amazing.

                              I found this article from an Australian newspaper dated Oct. 2006.
                              Yes Statistics can be used to say anything you like. I should know as a Computure consultant who worked mainly in Finance and especially delivering Statistical Analysis for Management and Marketing, it's amazing what you can do when applying different types of criteria to Data.

                              The only way for sure that we can know if the guns laws have worked or not is to do a real time test case where you have two popluations of exactly the same types of people (and everthing about their living conditions etc is also exactly the same). One population has gun laws the other does not. Then you look at the two test populations asn see whether or not gun laws work or not.

                              Meanwhile, those statisticians are working on a premise that decline prior to gun buyback meant that decline after cannot be attributed at all to a gun buyback. How do they know where is their proof? It is only assumption they are working on they have no proof. There may not have been a continuation of that a decline if gun laws had not been put in place. They have no way of knowing.

                              In the end I am happy with Australian laws. In the last few years there are a whole lot of young hoons who go around using roman candles and crackers as weapons (they use them out of car windows and do it for fun to get a reaction). That is bad enough. Heaven help us if they could all run around with guns. Now of course one with a true criminal nature will find himself a gun and all I do is pray that the Lord keep us safe from them.

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                              • Ccw

                                Originally posted by WVBORN56 View Post
                                I wonder what Jesus would be packin?

                                .
                                A Double Edged Sword

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