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  • #31
    Originally posted by G Moorish View Post
    Let me first speak for myself saying, I know I draw nary one breath without sin, no matter what the circumstance. My sinfulness will end only when I quit this earth. So badly do I need our Lord's salvation! But I sincerely believe the same is true for every Christian. I do not judge another man's motivations, but I well know the thin line between godly works and self. Knowing that, I always have to check myself, my own motivations. This is consistent with Mr. Darby's writings of which I have read all.

    Mr. Darby modeled his life on separation unto Christ from sin, evil and the world. He was not always consistent, but he did not knowingly countenance evil. When he wrote, "sin is a man having his own way"; it was in the context of the will of man being opposed to the will of God. But since you asked, in connection with 1Jn.2:15-17, Mr. Darby wrote: "A Christian has no right to have a will of his own, nor should he desire it, but rather to know what is that good and perfect will of God. (Nine Lectures on the First Epistle of John, page 41). I think that clearly puts his position on Christian free will.

    The question might be, Did Christ set us free merely so we can exercise our own will? Isn't that what got us into trouble in the first place? All I would say in reply is, while the Apostles saw themselves as bond servants to Christ, it seems today very few believers truly behave themselves as such.

    Marvin
    Hey Marvin! God bless you. I appreciate the care (and time) with which you replied. Have absolutely no doubt that you've read all of Darby's writings. I've received many of those same things directly from the Bible illuminated by the Holy Spirit. As I assume Darby did.

    Have benefitted from other Believer's lives and writings as well. It is a legitimate path to profitable knowledge. I don't judge another man's motives, but I do try to discern them.

    Always thank God for my food. But does He care what exactly I eat? While I know He is present in the whole matter, within body (temple) honoring guidelines, a quality choice could be a number of things that are merely a preference of the uniquely created person that I am. Is that really sin? (Of course if I have an unction from the Spirit to not eat something and I disregard such then fooey on me!)

    I ask this question because it has been a considerable problem in my life. 'Knowing the will of God' for me. Literally, right now, I am unable to decide in regards to new transportation. Should I buy new, certified used or buy a really old vehicle and fix it up? Or repair one of my aging vehicles? I ask other Believers and they say "He doesn't care. Do whatever you want. Its not a spiritual matter." But I lean toward what you are saying in that I believe God has interests in even the little matters of life. (And these days vehicles aren't a small matter!) So without sensing a clear direction, here I sit paralyzed with uncertainty for months now and not wanting to mess up (yet again!). I will freely admit to a limited ability to hear God on every little matter.

    And I literally am trying to find a vehicle that I like, but not like very much (love), to avoid exactly what you are saying. But then I get responses like "whats wrong with you!?" I don't know whats wrong with me? But something is. The Old Man? Pride of Ownership? Whats others may think of my choice? (Ordinary pride.) Will they respect it, and by extension, me? Maybe a Double Minded man? Maybe a false humility in that instead of a new pickup, I instead love the money even more?? All are possible in my case. "Thin line" indeed!

    I'm definitely no apostle. The Holy Spirit has recently been showing me that root of bitterness has taken hold in my life and it is wrecking havoc. The above is likely, at the very least, negatively influenced by it.

    As to the original topic, I sure wish I could get this figured out better. But I only want to do whatever He wants so I can get a "Well done somewhat faithful servant" and He can take me home NOW. If not sooner. Use to want to experience the rapture (weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!), but now I leave it up to Him.

    I hate this world, but honestly this is partly true because I am largely a failure in it. I'd love to claim more piety, but I am such minded that I believe the Lord may be withholding a healing so that I do not run out into the world further than I do now in my defective condition. As per my prayer request! "Lord, don't give me so much that I become ensnared." He is faithful. That would be, IMO, contrary to some modern ear tickling. God actually being... good... all the time!


    Craig

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    • #32
      Originally posted by G Moorish View Post
      The question might be, Did Christ set us free merely so we can exercise our own will? Isn't that what got us into trouble in the first place?
      No one said God set us free merely to exercise our own will. This is a classic strawman argument. One has to strain to bring this into the discussion. I'm disappointed.

      Also disappointed with my own convoluted response. Lets try something more straight forward...

      27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

      Was man created with Free Will or not??

      31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

      All I am saying is to stop calling bad, what God calls very good.

      I must ask you something else. How can you cease to exercise free will without practicing it??

      I am going to go ahead and mosey off now. Obviously have a lot of personal work to do. Blessings All.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by HopeHopeHope View Post
        No one said God set us free merely to exercise our own will. This is a classic strawman argument. One has to strain to bring this into the discussion.

        All I am saying is to stop calling bad, what God calls very good.

        I must ask you something else. How can you cease to exercise free will without practicing it??

        Rom.8:18-22 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy [to be compared] with the coming glory to be revealed to us. For the anxious looking out of the creature expects the revelation of the sons of God: for the creature has been made subject to vanity, not of its will, but by reason of him who has subjected [the same], in hope that the creature itself also shall be set free from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now.

        Rom.8:29 Because whom he has foreknown, he has also predestinated [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, so that he should be [the] firstborn among many brethren.

        I don't think it was a straw man argument at all. It is the central question I would ask of every Christian who replaces Christ as their center with the materialism of possessions. Free will exercise is at the very heart of it. Surely they have the right to exercise free will, but how would they justify it to our Lord Jesus Christ Who did only the will of the Father? They go and do everything unbelievers do, rationalizing gratifying their own lusts, just as unbelievers do - then they wonder why their Christian testimony is ineffective.

        Incidentally, I am informed by missionaries who serve our Lord in Africa that Christians there look with disappointment at Christians in the United States because of our worldly walk and material display. That bears contemplation.

        Surely God pronounced His creation to be very good at the time He made it. How could it be otherwise? But as the planet now groans under the effect of sin, does God still call it very good? Will He not purge and renovate it by fire? And while Adam was indeed created in the image of God, how is it we must now be restored to the image of Christ? Does it not indicate the image suffered loss in Adam's exercise of free will in the garden? Indeed Adam was created with free will and he exercised it to disobey the stated will of God.

        At the restaurant I may freely pick whatever entree I wish and might afford. But I must question myself, is it God's will for me to be in the restaurant in the first place? Having a choice I set up for myself, doesn't mean God's will intended me to have that choice to make. Who among us has not turned the liberty unto which Christ has called us into opportunities for the flesh (Gal.5:13)? Man's vaunted "free will" inevitably leads to sin. What is there to celebrate about it?

        Instead, the Apostle Paul enjoined us to follow the Apostles's example (2Th.3:7). Their confession was as bond-servants of Christ and indeed that is very hard way to go. Paul had rights he specifically didn't exercise. Self denial is a Christian doctrine that seems to get only limited preaching these days. But therein is the answer to your question - self denial to the point that the only will being freely exercised is God's will. I'm not saying I consistently meet that test. I have the same problem Paul confessed in Rom.7:14-25. So I know how unreliable is my flesh and that exercising my rights only amplifies my flesh, not my Christian testimony.

        Marvin

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        • #34
          So free will will be removed once we are completely restored back to our Garden of Eden days since Adam screwed it up the first time?
          Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by BorrowedTime View Post
            So free will will be removed once we are completely restored back to our Garden of Eden days since Adam screwed it up the first time?
            2 Cor 3:15:17
            But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
            Liberty. Hmmm. What a concept.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by TRex2 View Post
              2 Cor 3:15:17

              Liberty. Hmmm. What a concept.
              I understand. I don't think what we eat or car we drive. Unless there is some form of idolatry getting involved it seems really weird to get wrapped in that.

              In the Garden of Eden they had free roam minus one tree. In Genesis 2:16-17 it appears there are many options just one bad one. Didn't seem God had a strict plan on when and what tree to eat from.
              Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by TRex2 View Post
                2 Cor 3:15:17

                Liberty. Hmmm. What a concept.
                2Co.3:12-14 Having therefore such hope, we use much boldness: and not according as Moses put a veil on his own face, so that the children of Israel should not fix their eyes on the end of that annulled. But their thoughts have been darkened, for unto this day the same veil remains in reading the old covenant, unremoved, which in Christ is annulled. But unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil lies upon their heart. But when it shall turn to [the] Lord, the veil is taken away.) Now the Lord is the Spirit, but where the Spirit of [the] Lord [is, there is] liberty. But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by [the] Lord [the] Spirit.

                Taken in full context, the liberty indicated is specifically freedom from the Law of Moses which our Lord Jesus Christ is plainly said to have annulled. It has nothing to do with free will. The passage actually compares our liberty from the Law's prescription over which the Rabbinical system stumbles. That is Christian Liberty enabling the believer to do the will of God without law. John 8:31-36 seems to carry the same aspect: those who continue in His word will know truth and truth will set them free. Romans 3:20-28 seem to reinforce the same teaching.

                Romans 14 might be taken as the same "free will" indicated by some here. There, the Apostle Paul warns against exercising one's liberty to the point of stumbling a weaker brother. It's really about exercising personal liberty toward the edification and unity of the body of Christ which is underlined by Rom.14:19 and elsewhere is endorsed. Yet in Rom.10 Paul clearly warns that those n fellowship with pagan rituals cannot also have fellowship at the Lord's table even though the pagan idol is really nothing at all (1Co.8:4). So we find applicable prescription limiting perceived exercise of Christian Liberty. It is one thing to eat meat sold in the market that may once have been sacrificed on pagan altars, but it's quite another thing to partake of pagan ritual itself. That has extension to many aspects of modern life.

                How often today are believers sucked into the world's systematic values thinking their free will permits and God has no stake in it? The New Testament never authorizes believers to go and to do as we please. James 4:15 make it clear whatever plan we hatch is subject ultimately to the Sovereign will of God. We go and do as the Lord wills - else, we go and do being outside the will of God. Demas was with Paul in Gal.4:10 but had departed for the present age by 2Tim.4:10. That has been my point all along. I have been outside the will of God enough times in my nearly 70 years to know it is a very shaky place to stand. It's better to search the scriptures to understand the will of God, then act upon those principles.

                Marvin

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by G Moorish View Post
                  The New Testament never authorizes believers to go and to do as we please.
                  Yup. That's what we are all saying. Thank you for pointing out the errors of our sins.

                  First you pick the wrong restraunt.
                  Then the wrong meal.
                  Then you purchase the wrong car.
                  From there the lying, cheating and stealing and immoral sexual behavior comes in. It's a downward spiral.

                  God offers peace and security through Christ but don't step on the crack or you'll fall and break your back.
                  Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

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                  • #39
                    All I know is I look so forward to the day God sounds the trump and we go to be with Jesus forever, our blessed hope.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by $teven View Post
                      All I know is I look so forward to the day God sounds the trump and we go to be with Jesus forever, our blessed hope.
                      I agree, 100 percent!!!
                      Jesus, please come back TODAY!!!!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by poc4dw View Post
                        My question is: have you accomplished all you wished to accomplish before Christ returns? If not, is it possible to start?
                        Nope. Not even close. What I'd like to do will take a century at minimum. More likely a thousand years, or even longer.

                        Of course, I can do it most efficiently in God's presence. So while I keep busy for now, I'm more than ready to make the transition...regardless of whatever form it takes!
                        --------Eric H. Bowen

                        sigpic 16 inch Armor Piercing: When you care enough to send the very, very, best!

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                        • #42
                          Nope. Not even close. What I'd like to do will take a century at minimum. More likely a thousand years, or even longer.
                          I'm curious. What would you like to do? Whatever it is, that's a long project!
                          Diane
                          Psalm 108:1 - my heart is determined.

                          #T h e C o m i n g C h r i s t M o v i e

                          #S c r i p t u r e S e e d s


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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by poc4dw View Post
                            I'm curious. What would you like to do? Whatever it is, that's a long project!
                            I think the clue for that is in his statement:
                            "Of course, I can do it most efficiently in God's presence. "
                            I suspect he is referring to becoming Christ like.

                            For my own self, I don't see a time of arrival for that, and for me,
                            it will only be done after Jesus comes to gather me in.

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                            • #44
                              I'm ready for Jesus to rapture his bride, but I have family members who are not. It is my most fervent prayer that God removes the scales from their eyes.

                              I've been studying Bible prophecy for 40 years and I am convinced that we are the Revelation Generation that will experience the Rapture. Everything is moving very fast around the world, the stage is set, and the players are in place.

                              We don't know the time or the hour, but we will know the season. I truly believe that we are in the season and we will see Jesus soon.

                              There is nothing left for me to do other than to continue witnessing to others and sharing the Good News with them.

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                              • #45
                                I've been studying Bible prophecy for 40 years and I am convinced that we are the Revelation Generation that will experience the Rapture.
                                Me too. I've studied prophecy for eleven years. At first I didn't believe the Parable of the Fig Tree indicated we are the last generation. A few months ago I changed my position.

                                I am committed, as much as I humanly can, to staying the course.

                                YSIC,
                                Diane
                                Last edited by poc4dw; June 4th, 2017, 09:34 PM. Reason: I apparently dunno how to spell
                                Diane
                                Psalm 108:1 - my heart is determined.

                                #T h e C o m i n g C h r i s t M o v i e

                                #S c r i p t u r e S e e d s


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