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  • #16
    We aren't to be shocked when nonbelievers live like nonbelievers... there's no reason or power for them to change.

    Regardless of her belief, the main thing I noticed was the kid picking out girly things is at worst a symptom. The real problem is that he has no father, and that he is indeed a product of a non existent relationship. Also, I don't think it is a good thing for a four year old to have a sleep over, esp. with the opposite sex. In short, the major things I see wrong are much more fundamental... honestly it isn't going to do any good to try to treat or point out the symptoms if the main issue doesn't change, and that issue is a parenting problem.

    Pray for them, maybe invite them to a good church if you have one? Suggest a bible study maybe?

    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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    • #17
      Originally posted by I'm His View Post
      Interesting points that I haven't considered. I understand that God is never changing and I expect that you're right that what He once despised, He still despises. I guess what I don't understand is how can some things that were called an abomination in the OT be ok now, such as shellfish and mixing fabrics? Please know that I am not arguing, I am still learning. And, if I were to bring this up to my friend, it is very likely that she would try and make this point, and I honestly wouldn't know what to say. It would seem as though I was picking and choosing what I wanted to follow, I fear, and my point wwould be dismissed.
      God never said that shellfish was an abomination to Him nor mixing fabrics. Things He says are an abomination to Him always have been and always will be.
      And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 1 Timothy 6:8

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Tarvan View Post
        God never said that shellfish was an abomination to Him nor mixing fabrics. Things He says are an abomination to Him always have been and always will be.
        Actually almost every sin is listed as an abomination at some point in scripture. Shellfish were indeed in the list.

        Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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        • #19

          Deuteronomy 14:8
          Also the swine is unclean for you, because it has cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud; you shall not eat their flesh or touch their dead carcasses.

          Leviticus 11:10
          But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you.



          Bear in mind [context], this is something specific to the Jewish diet. That said, isn't it curious how bad pork and shellfish can be for our health?



          Acts 11:5-9 New King James Version (NKJV)

          5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object descending like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came to me. 6 When I observed it intently and considered, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 7 And I heard a voice saying to me, ‘Rise, Peter; kill and eat.’ 8 But I said, ‘Not so, Lord! For nothing common or unclean has at any time entered my mouth.’ 9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, ‘What God has cleansed you must not call common.’



          I guess we could go round in circles, well God made it clean, but the practice is wrong, but that is OT vs NT.


          Paul! Help us please.

          Don't you see the real problem. Its not about clothing. Its not about bathrooms.

          Its about being what we are not.

          Its about living a lie.

          Its about rejecting God - what He has created.


          Life has enough problems. We have people suffering idenity crisis' every moment. Even we as Christians struggle daily with being what He wants us to be.


          So to help things along, society blurs or outright destroys the gift of gender. satan screams with delight as parents struggle with the decision do we have a boy or a girl?
          Funny how kids can figure it out quickly and it shows as non-confromist are spotted quickly. Its human nature.

          So to help kids caring adults lend a misguiding hand, and instead ot teaching a child about the beautiful gift of gender which God has bestowed,
          they remove God or worse vilify Him by implying He is so incompetent He cannot even assigning sex correctly.


          This young boy will suffer greatly. The damage will accumulate. And the end result is most likely one of destruction.


          As for the NT, Paul addressed cadomites [men who preformed - dressed - served as women] - they are listed in the disinhereted group.
          It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

          John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

          “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Thank you all.

            Kliska, you are right in that this little boy is poorly parented. He goes to spend the night with this little girl (I still can't believe they have co ed sleepovers!) so that my friend can have nights out. I totally understand the need to have time to yourself, but he could stay with his grandparents instead. She also has her boyfriend sleeping over regularly and sees nothing wrong with exposing her son to that. It's so sad to me.

            Wally, thank you times a million for your post. Your explanation clicked something in me and I finally am able to understand the difference between OT/NT, why some things are ok and others not. I see now how God made all foods clean, but He never said for men to go ahead and dress like women or that it is now ok to get drunk, or commit adultery. It seems like our society is so good at blurring the lines and picking every little thing apart, and it discredits the gospel to many people because the bible seems inconsistent to them. I admit, I have struggled with that in the past, too, so I can understand some of what they're thinking.

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            • #21
              Being gay is trendy now! I am sick of it. God made marriage on earth to be between a man and a woman.

              I feel so sorry for kids today.

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              • #22
                Its another way kids can be disobedient to parents - especially if teachers and classmates are encouraging it.

                Other parents fail due to complacency,

                Or very soon, any Godly correction will get parents jailed.


                Signs of the Times
                It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

                John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

                “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Wally View Post
                  . . . This young boy will suffer greatly. The damage will accumulate. And the end result is most likely one of destruction. . . .
                  I learned at least a little about homosexuality during one of my psychology courses in college. I learned that a common background for homosexual men is having a harsh, rejecting or--like the little boy you are speaking of--absent father. I recently read that it is also not uncommon for a homosexual to have been molested when he was younger.

                  This little boy needs the influence of straight men in his life, men who will show him good/fun/valuable things about being male. And it sounds very dangerous for the woman to let her little boy stay overnight at the house of these homosexuals, not to mention the whole idea of an opposite-sex sleepover. Is she not worried that he might be molested?

                  As far as, in effect, encouraging homosexuality, the average age of death for homosexuals is, I understand, around 40, so she could be encouraging him to cut his earthly life in half. Spiritually, she is condoning a path that leads to hell.

                  1 Cor 6:9-10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

                  Chick publications has a few tracts addressing homosexuality (links below). I think only one or two of them are in print right now, but you can view Chick's tracts online even if they are out of print. You will want to read them first, before you decide if you want to send any of the links and, if so, which one(s) to send as the ones on this subject are not pleasant to read.


                  The Gay Blade
                  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0084/0084_01.asp

                  Uninvited
                  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1070/1070_01.asp

                  Sin City
                  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5003/5003_01.asp

                  Doom Town
                  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0273/0273_01.asp

                  Birds and the Bees
                  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1052/1052_01.asp

                  You might also consider sending her the link to one of these for her to read for herself. They address a woman's life/eternal destination in review, first as unsaved, second if she were saved.
                  You Have a Date!
                  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1072/1072_01.asp

                  Your Big Moment
                  Similar to You Have a Date!, but illustrated for black women.
                  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1110/1110_01.asp

                  Thank you, Mary Rae, for your lovely picture!

                  "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21
                  ______

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                  • #24
                    As a believer, I would not allow my children to associate with homosexuals. The child is clearly starving for male role models, and the only ones Mom has provided are gay. The only 2-parent relationship he witnesses, the only "stable" relationship - all gay.

                    She is making him gay even before the dress-up. Children bond and imprint, especially at that age, on adults who give them care, consideration, and attention.

                    Acts 15:20, Acts 21:25 - abstain from sexual immorality.
                    1 Corinthians 5:9, 1 Corinthians 5:11 - don't associate with sexually immoral (like gay men)
                    1 Thessalonians 4:3 - abstain from sexual immorality

                    The Bible is really clear on this: avoid immorality, and avoid those who are immoral (by that I mean those defiantly living a sinful lifestyle). I never ask if a driver is living a sinful life before I get in the vehicle, or when I give someone a Bible. However, I wouldn't let my kid stay over with someone living in sin, gay or straight.

                    " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

                    Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

                    Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

                    Matthew 22:9 NIV
                    'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


                    I'm praying for you daily!
                    I get my Bibles here

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                    • #25
                      I have a lot of thoughts going through my head about this post. I feel this boy is being abused by his mother, not just bad parenting, but i guess that's a way to put it. It's jut wrong.

                      But Tiger Lily and Acts pretty much said what i was thinking. Exodus international is a ministry for homosexuals wanting to come out of that lifestyle and who have come out of it. I have read books and reports by some members and they do make the point that most little boys have had an early sexual encounter with another boy and they become confused and then Satan sows the lie that this is " how they are". Then sadly we have people like this boys mother that confirms this instead of telling them it is a lie.

                      I, like Acts, would never let my son go over to their home. That boy is learning stuff from them and getting ideas about what it means to be a " man" from them. It's gross and bothers me to read this stuff. Poor child.

                      If she is a christian, which from her fruit it appears she is not, that she should abhor what God says is evil and i think it is pretty clear what God thinks about homosexuality and even being effeminate. She is helping her son to sin against the Lord and therefore it would be better if she had a milestone hung around her neck and she be drowned in the depths of the sea...can't remember the passage.

                      Anyway, if i were her friend i would tell her these things and then i would tell her to read the book of 1 John very carefully. The whole book is a test for people professing to be christians to see whether they are actually in the faith. There are 10 characteristics a person should see in themselves and frankly others, if they are saved. There's not much time left for her to figure it out. Thankfully that boy will be with the Lord soon as well before his mother has further time to confuse him.

                      Cansma

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cansma View Post
                        . . . If she is a christian, which from her fruit it appears she is not, that she should abhor what God says is evil and i think it is pretty clear what God thinks about homosexuality and even being effeminate. She is helping her son to sin against the Lord and therefore it would be better if she had a milestone hung around her neck and she be drowned in the depths of the sea...can't remember the passage. . . .
                        Good point about that passage:

                        Luke 17:1-2 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin."

                        Thank you, Mary Rae, for your lovely picture!

                        "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21
                        ______

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                        • #27
                          Thank you Acts, Tiger Lily, and Casma. I appreciate your reponses and the scriptures you shared. I knew I was right to feel such a conviction on this subject. I hope that I will get the opportunity to talk to her about this and share those truths. Thanks again for your input.

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                          • #28

                            Thank you, Mary Rae, for your lovely picture!

                            "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21
                            ______

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              In response to your post, I feel like I should give you some insight into my situation. I was also a divorced mom with a son who had these tendencies. Although I didn't encourage it, I did nothing to discourage it. The behavior escalated, and I continued to make excuses for his behavior such as 'he's just sensitive and has a big heart' or 'he's just a mama's boy'. Ultimately, he is 20 now and has announced his homosexuality. I wish I could go back and give more direction and set more limits. That was my duty, and I failed. I'm not sure there's much you can do in your situation if your friend is set on encouraging it, but I wanted to let you know that I don't think it will end favorably. My prayers are with that little boy. If boundaries aren't set, confusion sets in.



                              Originally posted by I'm His View Post
                              I wanted to get a Christian perspective on this topic.

                              I have a friend whom I've known since college. She has a 4 year old son who was conceived out of wedlock and she raises him on her own--the father is in no way involved.
                              My friend's son enjoys wearing tutus and other girly clothing, having his nails painted pink or purple, wearing girl's jewelry, and other such things that are girly. To be fair, he also enjoys boy clothing and interests at times, too.

                              My friend sees absolutely no problem with letting him "experiment" and "find himself," and she is happy to buy him girly clothing, etc. She even let him wear one of her hot pink tank tops as a dress in his recent school pictures, because he wanted to.

                              In my gut, I feel like allowing him to do these things and not setting boundaries for him is wrong, but is it biblically wrong? It bothers me greatly, though I haven't expressed that to her. She says that she doesn't care what he wears or plays with, as long as he's "true to himself." My friend also blames it on the fact that he's always around girls (mother, cousins,) and doesn't have a father or many male role models. Oh, and another thing. The boy's best friend is a girl with homesexual fathers. The little boy often spends the night at their house and spends a great deal of time with them. I don't suspect any abuse or anything like that, but I do wonder if he is being influenced by the lifestyle he sees often.

                              What do you all think? Am I wrong to feel an aversion to this behavior? Are their scriptures dealing with this?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Tiger Lily View Post
                                Good point about that passage:

                                Luke 17:1-2 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin."
                                Yes, that's the scripture- thanks for finding

                                I just wanted to add something else. When i was 3.5 years old my mom went back to work and put me with a babysitter; a neighbor. My mom would drop me off and as soon as my mom left the sitter would put back on my coat and boots and put me back outside for the day. She told me to go play and i'd be outdoors until right before my mother came to pick me up. This even occurred all winter and one time she left me out in a blizzard ( i mean blizzard and not a snowfall). I went around to all kinds of doors asking to come in or if their children wanted to come out to play. No one let me in and of course normal moms didn't let their kids play in blizzards. That night my mom got a phone call from the lady down the road who when my mom answered bluntly said " what kind of mother leaves their child out in a blizzard" and went on to tell my mother what she'd seen. My mom asked me if it was true and i told her yes even though i had not told her about every other day i was locked outside. I never went back to that babysitter again.
                                My point? Neither my mom nor the woman who called to rip into my mother were beleivers. My mom is atheist to this day. But her actions did change once someone told her what was happening to her child. Whether it was shame or what? Who knows? But an unbeleiver can be told a truth and them change their behavior. I noticed an earlier post that seemed to say this isn't possible so why bother to tell her. I think love always says something. God has put his morals into the heart of man, so they are without excuse when they stand before Him one day. Romans 1:19-20
                                Giving her the law would be good, not legalistic, for the law was made for sinners.

                                Lets give the mom the benefit of the doubt that she is ignorant about homosexuality and what the bible says about it and the possibility that her son is being abused when he goes for sleepovers. But i think if she really loves her son and is presented with the truth and wants to protect her son he may never go there again. And maybe she'll stop promoting the lie he believes that being effiminate is normal.

                                If she tries to pull the " well that's the OT" bit then 2 Timothy 3:16 speaks to that
                                All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...
                                Notice it is all scripture and not just what is found in the NT.

                                As well if she tries the " he was born that way" bit then

                                Psalm 139:13-14
                                English Standard Version (ESV)
                                13*For you formed my inward parts;
                                ****you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
                                14*I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
                                Wonderful are your works;
                                ****my soul knows it very well.

                                God very carefully makes everyone to be who they are and seeing as He finds homosexuality an abomination, we can be sure He didn't make them homosexual. That would be going against who He is.

                                I am praying for this boy, his mom and hopefully that you will be able to present these truths to her some day soon, for that poor childs sake.

                                Cansma

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