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  • I think our Pastor is becoming a dictator

    I really need some help understanding a few things and I'm hoping someone can respond with some Bible verses. I may be wrong about this, but I think our Pastor is becoming kind of a dictator. I understand that my husband is supposed to be the high priest in our home and I am learning to follow his leadership better than ever before while he is learning to lead in our home better than ever before. Any church I've ever been in before, many jobs, such as greeting, have been volunteer positions. However, every job at our church is assigned. One week you might be greeting at the door and the next week you might be helping in the chidrens' Sunday School. It doesn't matter what you prefer to do or how you feel the Holy Spirit is leading you, you will do the job that is assigned to you that week. Most jobs the women are not permitted to do alone. We have unmarried women who are permitted to do only a few jobs and they usually have to have a married couple working with them with the married man doing the leading. This even applies to greeting people as they enter the building. Also, the Pastor says that this is a Pastor led church, therefore the congregation doesn"t get to vote on anything. We don't even get to vote in new members. Now the Pastor wants every member to be assigned to serve the community at specific times and places. It doesn"t matter if you already minister in your community, even if you live a distance from the church. We are to be assigned our outreach ministry responsibilities. I am very uncomforable with the direction this church is taking and I wonder if someone here can direct me to any Bible verses that apply. I can't really take this up with the Pastor because I'm only a woman and a member of the congregation. What I think doesn't carry much weight. On the one hand, I find myself hoping my husband will lead us out of this church very soon. On the other hand, I dread looking for another church. It's so hard to find one that is Biblically sound..


    Pray without ceasing. 1 Thessalonians 5:17

    A closed mouth gathers no feet. Unknown

    Inside there's a thin woman trying to get out.
    I'm keeping her sedated with chocolate

  • #2
    I was always taught the Preacher runs the Church and if you don't like they way he runs it find another. I can tell you that it is not a Church I would attend! When a Church starts Mandating all those things it isn't where I want to be. Going to Church is a Voluntary thing and if it becomes "Work" and not a place I enjoy attending then I would not stick around! As far as scriptures go it sounds like a "Works" Church. You have to do X amount of Community Service etc in order to be a member of the Church! Also you Vote on People who can be members of your Church? Again I would not attend a Church that does not accept any and all! The Church I attend has all Nationalities and Social/Economic status's. We have Homeless who come in and we make them Welcome. Any way I am sure there are better answers coming these are just my thoughts given the information you gave. One Scripture that came to mind when I read your post was Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. We are saved by Grace and not Works. And even if the head of the Church says the same thing in my book when he says you have to do X amount of Community Service to be a part of the Church then to me it becomes a Works Church!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by AZCowboy View Post
      I was always taught the Preacher runs the Church and if you don't like they way he runs it find another. I can tell you that it is not a Church I would attend! When a Church starts Mandating all those things it isn't where I want to be. Going to Church is a Voluntary thing and if it becomes "Work" and not a place I enjoy attending then I would not stick around! As far as scriptures go it sounds like a "Works" Church. You have to do X amount of Community Service etc in order to be a member of the Church! Also you Vote on People who can be members of your Church? Again I would not attend a Church that does not accept any and all! The Church I attend has all Nationalities and Social/Economic status's. We have Homeless who come in and we make them Welcome. Any way I am sure there are better answers coming these are just my thoughts given the information you gave. One Scripture that came to mind when I read your post was Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. We are saved by Grace and not Works. And even if the head of the Church says the same thing in my book when he says you have to do X amount of Community Service to be a part of the Church then to me it becomes a Works Church!
      The churches I've been a member of in the past never really let the congregation vote on new members. I misspoke. However, after the Pastor ascertained that the person understood salvation and allowed him to join, he was presented to the congreagation as a formality. The new member was always unanimously accepted because the Pastor has already accepted him. It just helps the members of the congregation feel that we have a say in what's happening in our churdch. However, this Pastor won't even throw his congregation that bone. I wouldn't belong to a church that accepts any and all as members because I think we need to be sure the person knows what it means to be saved and has taken that step of faith. However, I do believe, unless they're just deliberately stirring up a lot of trouble, people who are nonmembers shpould be allowed to attend. As far as this being a works church, our Pastor says that, by God"s grace, we are saved by faith and works are not required to get us saved or keep us saved. On the other hand, he says that not doing works proves we are not saved. He uses the verse in James that says that faith without works is dead to prove his posotion. I do believe we shpuld be ministering inside and outside our church and it's a great idea for the church to help make serving oppotunities available to us. However, I believe this Pastor squelches the Holy Spirit because he won't allow us to serve as we believe the Lord is leading. We have some elderly women in our church who are being sqeezed out of church ministry that they enjoy and are capable of performing because he doesn"t like the waay they do things. I am going to be praying that the Lord either change my Pastor and hs way of leading, change my heart or move either the Pastor or my husband and me. BTW, thank you for your response.


      Pray without ceasing. 1 Thessalonians 5:17

      A closed mouth gathers no feet. Unknown

      Inside there's a thin woman trying to get out.
      I'm keeping her sedated with chocolate

      Comment


      • #4
        I see red flags all over the place. He sounds like a control freak more than anything else and I'd find another church. There's no leading of the Holy Spirit there. When a church becomes the Pastor's church OVER being God's church, its time to leave. Just my 2 cents.
        "Those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."Isaiah 40:31

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        • #5
          I see red flags all over the place. He sounds like a control freak more than anything else and I'd find another church. There's no leading of the Holy Spirit there. When a church becomes the Pastor's church OVER being God's church, its time to leave. Just my 2 cents.
          Couldn't agree more.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you Sunshine and Angelka. You are echoing my concerns. I will continue to pray for the Lord to intervene in some way. My husband isn't quite ready to leave yet. He feels a sense of responsibility to this church and is trying to make things work, but he is also becoming discouraged.


            Pray without ceasing. 1 Thessalonians 5:17

            A closed mouth gathers no feet. Unknown

            Inside there's a thin woman trying to get out.
            I'm keeping her sedated with chocolate

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sunshine2777 View Post
              I see red flags all over the place. He sounds like a control freak more than anything else and I'd find another church. There's no leading of the Holy Spirit there. When a church becomes the Pastor's church OVER being God's church, its time to leave. Just my 2 cents.
              Ditto.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jadeeyes View Post
                I can't really take this up with the Pastor because I'm only a woman and a member of the congregation. What I think doesn't carry much weight.
                Alright, at risk of coming off like a feminist (I'm not, lol)... the fact that this Pastor has impacted you to the point of saying "I'm only a woman" makes me cringe. If you are feeling like that, and like you don't have a voice because you are a female and "only" a member of the congregation, think what others in your church must be feeling too!

                Now, I'm all for strong Pastors leading their church and putting their foot down about teaching the gospel as they are lead to teach it... but this does sound like a human trying to act like God, in that they are not allowing the Holy Spirit any room, or particular people's callings and strong points to make an impact. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and should treat each other like family, not like a dictatorship. I'd keep discussing things with your husband, as his opinion is indeed very important.

                Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

                Comment


                • #9
                  Does Paul not talk about different members making a body and the importance of each body member? People are blessed with different gifts and interests and should be able to let the Holy Spirit guide them. And to take away service from the older ladies?? What a shame. I am sure they have so much to offer and really enjoy their service. Honey, I think this Pastor is wrong. And like Kliska said, for you to feel you are 'only a woman' is not right, either. I am all for leaders being men. But the Church (Big C) stretches from sea to sea and there is plenty of work for every man, woman and child. In your shoes, I would be very discouraged with my Pastor. You know, Pastors are humans and they make mistakes. If you love your church and feel you are being preached The Word, I can understand why there would be reluctance to leave. Maybe you and some of the other members could discuss this with him. It seems the women are not being utilized to the fullest potential, what about the men? Do they enjoy having 'assignments'? Praying is the absolute right thing to do. Let us know what happens.
                  John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world


                  Revelation22:17 Both the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kliska View Post
                    Alright, at risk of coming off like a feminist (I'm not, lol)... the fact that this Pastor has impacted you to the point of saying "I'm only a woman" makes me cringe. If you are feeling like that, and like you don't have a voice because you are a female and "only" a member of the congregation, think what others in your church must be feeling too!

                    Now, I'm all for strong Pastors leading their church and putting their foot down about teaching the gospel as they are lead to teach it... but this does sound like a human trying to act like God, in that they are not allowing the Holy Spirit any room, or particular people's callings and strong points to make an impact. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and should treat each other like family, not like a dictatorship. I'd keep discussing things with your husband, as his opinion is indeed very important.
                    Originally posted by JoyJoyJoy View Post
                    Does Paul not talk about different members making a body and the importance of each body member? People are blessed with different gifts and interests and should be able to let the Holy Spirit guide them. And to take away service from the older ladies?? What a shame. I am sure they have so much to offer and really enjoy their service. Honey, I think this Pastor is wrong. And like Kliska said, for you to feel you are 'only a woman' is not right, either. I am all for leaders being men. But the Church (Big C) stretches from sea to sea and there is plenty of work for every man, woman and child. In your shoes, I would be very discouraged with my Pastor. You know, Pastors are humans and they make mistakes. If you love your church and feel you are being preached The Word, I can understand why there would be reluctance to leave. Maybe you and some of the other members could discuss this with him. It seems the women are not being utilized to the fullest potential, what about the men? Do they enjoy having 'assignments'? Praying is the absolute right thing to do. Let us know what happens.
                    I had to stop and think about this. On one level, I was being a little sarcastic when I said I', only a woman. But the Pastor really does seem to have issues with women. He seemsto be very uncomfortable with strong women ad he does not usually allow women to serve unless a man is present to lead them, except for his wife. If I was a widow, my capacity to serve in thsi church would be greatly diminished. As things stand now, I can barely serve at all without my husband there to lead me. I could never teach a group of teen girls. My husband would have to be the teacher and I would have to be his assistant and my husband doesn't have the gift of teaching. There are so many ways in which I think he has set himself up as a dictator and there is no talking to him. It's his way or the highway. And when someone leaves because they disagree with him, he makes sure the rest of us know that the person left due to selfishness and if a man agrees with his wife that it's time to eave that church, the man is not being the leader God has called him to be. In other words, everyone who finally leaves because he is a dictator or because this church doesn't provide for the needs of the family, our Pastor chalks it up to their sinfulness. The Word of God is preached at our church, but it is not strictly adhered to. As for the 2 ederly ladies, sometimes they are a minor pain. They are elderly and they like to do things their own way. But the issues involved are very minor. They have been trying to serve where they have some talent and feel led to serve, but the Pastor is almost copletely blocking them from serving where they feel led to serve and trying to force them into a very tiny serving role doing something they don't necessarily feel called to serve. I am very frustrated and very sad and I'm also angry about the way these 2 women are being treated. BTW, men can serve without their wives. My husband frequently serves without me. I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels. I am not permitted to serve the way I feel called and I am also not permitted, according to this Pastor, to choose how I will serve in the community. We will be assigned ways and places to serve in the community. At any rate, I would need my husband to choose any community ministry for me and to serve by my side. So, I will continue to pray and talk to my husband, but I already feel like I'm done with this church and may start staying away from some of the events the Pastor has mandated. I'm not 5 and he's not my Dad or husband. In fact, he's young enough to be my son.


                    Pray without ceasing. 1 Thessalonians 5:17

                    A closed mouth gathers no feet. Unknown

                    Inside there's a thin woman trying to get out.
                    I'm keeping her sedated with chocolate

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jadeeyes View Post
                      I had to stop and think about this. On one level, I was being a little sarcastic when I said I', only a woman. But the Pastor really does seem to have issues with women. He seemsto be very uncomfortable with strong women ad he does not usually allow women to serve unless a man is present to lead them, except for his wife.
                      You seem to be level headed about this, so I do wonder what other not-so-level-headed females feel like in this church... I would imagine they feel pretty low. So, his wife gets special privileges?

                      If I was a widow, my capacity to serve in thsi church would be greatly diminished. As things stand now, I can barely serve at all without my husband there to lead me. I could never teach a group of teen girls. My husband would have to be the teacher and I would have to be his assistant and my husband doesn't have the gift of teaching. There are so many ways in which I think he has set himself up as a dictator and there is no talking to him. It's his way or the highway. And when someone leaves because they disagree with him, he makes sure the rest of us know that the person left due to selfishness and if a man agrees with his wife that it's time to eave that church, the man is not being the leader God has called him to be. In other words, everyone who finally leaves because he is a dictator or because this church doesn't provide for the needs of the family, our Pastor chalks it up to their sinfulness.
                      Yeah... this guy doesn't sound like a kind under-shepherd.

                      The Word of God is preached at our church, but it is not strictly adhered to. As for the 2 ederly ladies, sometimes they are a minor pain. They are elderly and they like to do things their own way. But the issues involved are very minor. They have been trying to serve where they have some talent and feel led to serve, but the Pastor is almost copletely blocking them from serving where they feel led to serve and trying to force them into a very tiny serving role doing something they don't necessarily feel called to serve. I am very frustrated and very sad and I'm also angry about the way these 2 women are being treated. BTW, men can serve without their wives. My husband frequently serves without me. I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels. I am not permitted to serve the way I feel called and I am also not permitted, according to this Pastor, to choose how I will serve in the community. We will be assigned ways and places to serve in the community. At any rate, I would need my husband to choose any community ministry for me and to serve by my side. So, I will continue to pray and talk to my husband, but I already feel like I'm done with this church and may start staying away from some of the events the Pastor has mandated. I'm not 5 and he's not my Dad or husband. In fact, he's young enough to be my son.
                      We wives are under the leadership of our husbands (as long as they line up with God), not men in general. It sounds like this pastor is taking things to extremes. Also, if the man/woman situation really is mismatched; like a male would be able to teach a roomful of young females, that seems a bit off to me. Decorum and order should always be followed, but this sounds like a whole other ballgame with women being looked on as second-class believers.

                      Do keep prayin! Hope it all works out for you and your husband!

                      Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kliska View Post
                        You seem to be level headed about this, so I do wonder what other not-so-level-headed females feel like in this church... I would imagine they feel pretty low. So, his wife gets special privileges?



                        Yeah... this guy doesn't sound like a kind under-shepherd.



                        We wives are under the leadership of our husbands (as long as they line up with God), not men in general. It sounds like this pastor is taking things to extremes. Also, if the man/woman situation really is mismatched; like a male would be able to teach a roomful of young females, that seems a bit off to me. Decorum and order should always be followed, but this sounds like a whole other ballgame with women being looked on as second-class believers.

                        Do keep prayin! Hope it all works out for you and your husband!
                        Thank you. I so appreciate all the responses on this thread. I really needed a sounding board. I have a couple of friends I can bounce things off of, but they also attend this church. I don't want to create dissension and I wanted to hear from someone who is not involved in this situation. Maybe others could help me see if I am off base in any way. Nobody here has changed the situation, but I feel more confident that I am not just reacting emotionally. I want to serve God in my church and I want to be held accountable. And my husband has made strides in taking on his role as leader in our household while I have been learning to step back and alow him to lead.However, the other men in my church don't have headship over me and my husband doesn't have headship over the other women. I really think this Pastor has little respect for women. He would deny that, but it appears obvious to me and other women in our church. I seriously doubt we will still be there when summer rolls around. I hate to leave and I don't look forward to having to search for another church, but short of God changing things, that's what we might have to do.

                        Thank you to everyone who has responded to this thread. You have helped me to be clear that what I thought was not right, truly is not right.


                        Pray without ceasing. 1 Thessalonians 5:17

                        A closed mouth gathers no feet. Unknown

                        Inside there's a thin woman trying to get out.
                        I'm keeping her sedated with chocolate

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jadeeyes View Post
                          The churches I've been a member of in the past never really let the congregation vote on new members. I misspoke. However, after the Pastor ascertained that the person understood salvation and allowed him to join, he was presented to the congreagation as a formality. The new member was always unanimously accepted because the Pastor has already accepted him. It just helps the members of the congregation feel that we have a say in what's happening in our churdch. However, this Pastor won't even throw his congregation that bone. I wouldn't belong to a church that accepts any and all as members because I think we need to be sure the person knows what it means to be saved and has taken that step of faith. However, I do believe, unless they're just deliberately stirring up a lot of trouble, people who are nonmembers shpould be allowed to attend. As far as this being a works church, our Pastor says that, by God"s grace, we are saved by faith and works are not required to get us saved or keep us saved. On the other hand, he says that not doing works proves we are not saved. He uses the verse in James that says that faith without works is dead to prove his posotion. I do believe we shpuld be ministering inside and outside our church and it's a great idea for the church to help make serving oppotunities available to us. However, I believe this Pastor squelches the Holy Spirit because he won't allow us to serve as we believe the Lord is leading. We have some elderly women in our church who are being sqeezed out of church ministry that they enjoy and are capable of performing because he doesn"t like the waay they do things. I am going to be praying that the Lord either change my Pastor and hs way of leading, change my heart or move either the Pastor or my husband and me. BTW, thank you for your response.
                          You must have missed my point on Works. When you are REQUIRED to do X amount of Community Service to me it is a Works Church. As with Giving of Tides, Giving of your Time should be cheerfully given and not mandated. When it is mandated then it isn't cheerfully given it is a requirement for attendance. That is a Works Church in my opinion. I volunteer to clean our Parking lot at least weekly, Go on our community Outreach program at least once a month, Greet People at the Door on Sundays and Wednesdays and Go to Prayer 3 days a week. But I do them willingly and would probably leave my Church if a Pastor "Required" me to do any or all as a condition of Membership then I would have to look for another Church. (I am not Boasting or patting myself on the back about what I do just giving you an Idea as to my commitment to my Church). We have a lot of members who do not give of their time or as much as others some due to physical limitations and some due to just not being committed to the Church. But to me that is between them and God. Again this is just my opinion but that is what you wanted.

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                          • #14
                            Indeed sounds like this Pastor is taking things to the extreme. I will be praying for you because it is hard finding a new church. In fact so hard that honestly I don't feel like looking.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sunshine2777 View Post
                              I see red flags all over the place. He sounds like a control freak more than anything else and I'd find another church. There's no leading of the Holy Spirit there. When a church becomes the Pastor's church OVER being God's church, its time to leave. Just my 2 cents.
                              Ditto

                              Originally posted by jadeeyes View Post
                              Thank you Sunshine and Angelka. You are echoing my concerns. I will continue to pray for the Lord to intervene in some way. My husband isn't quite ready to leave yet. He feels a sense of responsibility to this church and is trying to make things work, but he is also becoming discouraged.
                              Sometimes the most profound statement a person can make about a church's actions and direction is voting with their feet. I'll pray that your husband's eyes are opened to what is going on.

                              Originally posted by jadeeyes View Post
                              I had to stop and think about this. On one level, I was being a little sarcastic when I said I', only a woman. But the Pastor really does seem to have issues with women. He seemsto be very uncomfortable with strong women ad he does not usually allow women to serve unless a man is present to lead them, except for his wife. If I was a widow, my capacity to serve in thsi church would be greatly diminished. As things stand now, I can barely serve at all without my husband there to lead me. I could never teach a group of teen girls. My husband would have to be the teacher and I would have to be his assistant and my husband doesn't have the gift of teaching. There are so many ways in which I think he has set himself up as a dictator and there is no talking to him. It's his way or the highway. And when someone leaves because they disagree with him, he makes sure the rest of us know that the person left due to selfishness and if a man agrees with his wife that it's time to eave that church, the man is not being the leader God has called him to be. In other words, everyone who finally leaves because he is a dictator or because this church doesn't provide for the needs of the family, our Pastor chalks it up to their sinfulness. The Word of God is preached at our church, but it is not strictly adhered to. As for the 2 ederly ladies, sometimes they are a minor pain. They are elderly and they like to do things their own way. But the issues involved are very minor. They have been trying to serve where they have some talent and feel led to serve, but the Pastor is almost copletely blocking them from serving where they feel led to serve and trying to force them into a very tiny serving role doing something they don't necessarily feel called to serve. I am very frustrated and very sad and I'm also angry about the way these 2 women are being treated. BTW, men can serve without their wives. My husband frequently serves without me. I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels. I am not permitted to serve the way I feel called and I am also not permitted, according to this Pastor, to choose how I will serve in the community. We will be assigned ways and places to serve in the community. At any rate, I would need my husband to choose any community ministry for me and to serve by my side. So, I will continue to pray and talk to my husband, but I already feel like I'm done with this church and may start staying away from some of the events the Pastor has mandated. I'm not 5 and he's not my Dad or husband. In fact, he's young enough to be my son.
                              Wow! I fear for any little girl raised in this church because the message this Pastor is sending to every one of them is that their God given gifts are worth nothing unless they are married and unless a male is telling them how to use those gifts. I think it is wonderful when churches encourage their members to participate, serve in the community and volunteer at all levels, but to dictate who, where, and for how long - that's not Biblical.

                              And to basically say that an unmarried woman is not allowed to serve is crazy! God used Rahab, a prostitute, to save the spies in Jericho. God can use ANY of us in any way he sees fit. For the Pastor to dictate that females can only serve under their husband, that is misguided, sad and very very dangerous. He's twisting God's words and Jesus's teachings to create his own little empire.

                              Additionally the fact that he sees the need to publicly chasitise a family for leaving the church is vengeful. That is not of God.
                              "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38)

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