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  • #16
    Originally posted by kgreen20 View Post
    Don't forget that babies will be born in the Tribulation, too. All babies and small children will go in the Rapture, but more will be conceived and born afterward.
    "Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death."

    This verse cannot mean that babies and toddlers born in the tribulation will turn in their father - they would be too young. Another thing is that if babies are born during the tribulation why should they have to suffer and not the other children born before.

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    • #17
      LOL! Why should ANYBODY suffer in the Tribulation and not those before? Why should Christians and small children who have already died get to escape the horrors of the Tribulation, just because they died before it started? For that matter, why should the living Church also get to escape?

      Forgive me, but I don't really see your logic in your answer. Rather the emotionalism of "Why should some get to escape the suffering that others are forced to endure?"--the same logic that some are, even now, using regarding Christians in the United States who aren't being maimed, tortured, killed, imprisoned, enslaved, murdered, etc., etc., just because we have believed on the name of Jesus (as, sad to say, others are enduring in Moslem and Communist countries). The simple, logical answer is that God is not going to close the wombs of all women who are left behind at the Rapture--they will still be capable of having children, and many will. Don't forget Jesus' prediction of "woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers" when the time comes to escape Jerusalem during the abomination of desolation--that, alone, tells me that there will definitely be children born during that time period.

      As for children betraying their parents, well, can anyone look up the original Greek for that word used in that verse, to find out whether that verse was referring to literal children below the age of accountability when the Rapture occurs? I'm thinking that it could have been youth--kids who are in their teens, perhaps--that verse was speaking of, as I can't see a young child, below the age of accountability when the Rapture takes place, having the heartlessness to turn his own parents over to the authorities. A teenager, on the other hand, just might, if he's been corrupted by the Antichrist government.

      At least, that's what I'm figuring, anyway.



      Kathy G.


      “God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel”

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      • #18
        Originally posted by kgreen20 View Post
        For children too young to understand as well as for older believers, regardless of whether their parents know or knew Jesus or not.

        Now--for those of you who believe that innocent young children whose parents are unsaved can expect to bear the blast and fury of God's wrath in the Tribulation instead of being counted innocent in God's eyes, go ahead!



        Yours truly,
        Kathy G.
        Kathy,
        I agree with everything you said. I think when the rapture happens, all of the babies in the womb of those who are lost will also go up to heaven. I believe that the belly's of the women who are with child will literally be deflated at the sound of the trumpet.
        We presume that we would be ready for battle if confronted with a great crisis, but it is not the crisis that builds something within us—it simply reveals what we are made of already. -Oswald Chambers

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        • #19
          If all children below the age of accountability are included in the Rapture, what about intellectually disabled adults, who are totally incapable of understanding the gospel?
          sigpic Hey, Dad......ARE WE THERE YET?

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          • #20
            Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

            I would not necessarily press salvation into that verse, but I would consider, that if there was only a short time before the end (say, 7 years perhaps), that there might be literally millions of children who would not take the mark of the beast within that timeframe (because of their age) and yet would not necessarily be believers either. In that instance, their parents might be sent to hell, but they themselves would be spared to live on into the MK. It does seem that, below a certain maturity level would simply automatically be spared. However, going in the rapture, is another matter. I mean, all of the scenarios to which Jesus compares the final judgement (Sodom and Gomorah & Noah's flood) all have the entire population being left to be destroyed, including the children. But it seems to me that the MOB is the great divider of the sheep and the goats at the end of the tribulation.

            Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

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            • #21
              I don't believe that the children of the unsaved will go in the Rapture. This would mean that all children under the age of accountability (whatever that age is) would be gone. God knows people before they are even born and He knows whether or not they are going to be saved, even before they are born. Is that correct? Doesn't the Bible say that God even knows the number of hairs on our head and knows when a sparrow falls? In this case, He does know us intimately, even before we are born. We are told that God knows us in the womb. But do you think I have a wrong description of who God is? I'm not sure. I always saw God as all-knowing. We read prophecy in our Bible and we believe it because God knows the beginning from the end.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sydney Spider View Post
                If all children below the age of accountability are included in the Rapture, what about intellectually disabled adults, who are totally incapable of understanding the gospel?

                The same principle applies to them. Because of their mental retardation, they always have the innocence of a child, so they never reach the age of accountability.


                “God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel”

                Comment


                • #23
                  Something that came to mind while reading this, as we mention the age of accountablity, traditionaly I think most put that age at the age the jewish tradition celebrates at 13...BUT even just in my own life time I can see how different 13 was when I was 13 and how different it is now...they are way more mature at 13 on many levels now, and most of them we can agree are drenched in immorality, the music the movies, the sexual content the violence...while they are still young in some ways the innocence is yanked away much ealier, so does that mean that todays generation and those of tomorrow are younger at that moment of accountablity?

                  Also a thought I had, that really does go in keeping with those children of non believers not being apart of the rapture, I was watching a show that was about a wiccian woman who started a church in her home town, and has two young kids, the daughter was 7...anyway they showed the daughter knealing and holding rocks and praying to who knows whom and lighting insense & candles...and believeing as her parents do...is this child accountable?
                  she certainly has been introduced to christainity, she said as much herself, infact her brother who was only a smidge older said his best buddy is a christain!!(so the other child says) so shes been exposed to the message of Christ, but still remains in witch craft, as a wiccain...why would this child be raptured?
                  that hardly seems just if you think about it....she's 7 and a witch, but hey shes under 13 so shes a shoe in....??

                  I think scripture gives us clues about the issue, but as humans we want to 'see' things less wrathful...
                  But doesn't scripture also teach us that it is good for us to teach our children to fear The Lord? His wrath?
                  We can't allow oursleves to be lulled into a false sense of security from the feel good churches that only teach God as love...
                  God is Love but He is also Just and Rightous and the unclean unjust have no place with Him...(which is why we need Christ, cuz none of us can do it on our own...)

                  If no sin is greater than another, and sin is sin, than worshipping satan via wiccian witchcraft is a sin..right there with murder and keeping company with theives..and I would think the age wouldn't make a difference
                  If your 7 , 17, 37 or 97 if your worshipping the enemy of God , why would He remove you from the wrath to come??? I mean isn't it this kind of person the wrath is for??


                  Pagal I think you made some really good points of refecence in scripture!!

                  One other thing I guess could be seen as a question, I have a 10 yr old and an 8 yr old who have both asked Christ into their hearts...I believe with all my heart they are genuine, but at this tender age (because I work 24/7 protecting that innocence) I know they don't have the ablity to understand this decsion on an adult level...yet to have the faith of a child is more pure than what we as adults think we understand...So do my kids have to ask Jesus into there hearts again when they are older or was the one time all that was needed?
                  I believe my children will be caught up with us...I believe they are more excited about it than me sometimes...because for them its simple God is in
                  heaven and its perfect there...so why wouldn't we want to go there??
                  But I have noticed as they have gotten a little older, they want to make sure they will have there play stations in heaven....


                  btw I have had many dreams about the rapture, and they actually go against what I believe while I am awake, in my dreams adult believers are left and ONLY the children are raptured!!!
                  (I guess its the mother in me, just making sure my babies are safe)

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                  • #24
                    Jesus is my Hero! But KGreen is gaining some hero standing in my book. I ignorantly posted on the other site before turning the page to see that KGreen had come up with the right idea. I ranted about the post that mentioned babies born seconds after the rapture when in reality there will be no babies born for nearly 40 weeks following the rapture. When I turned the page and saw the thread, followed it to here, I was amazed that all of my arguments had already been made.

                    Pagal asks for scripture, how about Romans 5:9 that none of us will face the wrath of God but in fact are saved from the wrath of God because of the blood of Jesus. You cannot show us scripture to prove that the children of Sodom were destroyed by God. You can show us scripture that innocent children died at the plague of the passover, you can show us that hcildren died as a result of the taking of the promise land. However, what was the fate of these children and what was the extent of their suffering? We don't know, so we have to trust God that He knows what He is doing.

                    That is in fact what we do with children in the rapture. We trust that God knows what He is doing. Some people will not believe without the book and verse and I respect that but I would remind you that sometimes you have to use a little common sense and believe by faith.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by robertison View Post
                      Jesus is my Hero! But KGreen is gaining some hero standing in my book. I ignorantly posted on the other site before turning the page to see that KGreen had come up with the right idea. I ranted about the post that mentioned babies born seconds after the rapture when in reality there will be no babies born for nearly 40 weeks following the rapture. When I turned the page and saw the thread, followed it to here, I was amazed that all of my arguments had already been made.

                      Pagal asks for scripture, how about Romans 5:9 that none of us will face the wrath of God but in fact are saved from the wrath of God because of the blood of Jesus. You cannot show us scripture to prove that the children of Sodom were destroyed by God. You can show us scripture that innocent children died at the plague of the passover, you can show us that hcildren died as a result of the taking of the promise land. However, what was the fate of these children and what was the extent of their suffering? We don't know, so we have to trust God that He knows what He is doing.

                      That is in fact what we do with children in the rapture. We trust that God knows what He is doing. Some people will not believe without the book and verse and I respect that but I would remind you that sometimes you have to use a little common sense and believe by faith.
                      so what do you think about the example I gave about the 7 yr old girl who is a practicing witch? should she be raptured just because shes a child?
                      I have heard of 3rd graders taking guns to school and shooting other kids..is murder less of a crime if its done by a child? what about that little boy who was all over the news about a decade ago who stalked another little boy who was only 3 at the time I believe, and he lured him into the woods behind the baseball feild and crushed his tiny skull with a huge rock...the boy was only 9 at the time, dateline or one of those shows did a follow up story about a yr ago , the kid is still in juvie jail, older and explained how he planned out what he was going to do...it was planned...a 9 yr old plotted out the murder of a tiny toddler...should that boy be raptured?
                      We do have to trust God has the bigger picture in mind, and we probably won't understand it fully till we understand it all, but that doesn't mean we should assume God only judges adults...and I know this goes against most everyone in thinking, but children are no more innocent than adults, we have ALL been born into our sinful nature thanks to adam and eve...a child is thee very definition of narssicsim...while we don't look at it like that, a child believes the world revoves around them....and no one else matters...we have to be taught to not be selfish and naughty, we have to be told what is right and wrong...we are not automaticaly innocent because we are young...
                      I have heard it said from time to time that some child have just been mean or evil from birth....we can't say that all children will be raptured, because we just honestly don't know...
                      Before I get bashed for saying this, please understand I am a mother with 3 amazing children, and I speak from experience...God is thee ultimate parent, and we can only hope to love half as much as He loved first...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by robertison View Post
                        I ranted about the post that mentioned babies born seconds after the rapture when in reality there will be no babies born for nearly 40 weeks following the rapture.
                        Could you give me the scriptural verse for this, please.

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                        • #27
                          40 weeks, huh? How many months does that translate into? I think we can safely assume that it'll be at least 9 months before another baby is born, following our departure, as every unborn child will be Raptured right out of his mother's womb and more will have to be conceived before more can be born. (What a way to enter Heaven! =))


                          “God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel”

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                          • #28
                            40 weeks is considered full term for a baby...not 9 months.

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                            • #29
                              I see. Thanks for the info!


                              “God is right here, right now, ready to trade your burden for peace. Not just a little peace, but because of His amazing grace, complete peace. If you want your family to trust you, you’ve got to show them whom you trust.”—Tess on “Touched by an Angel”

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                40 Weeks to Full Term

                                I wasn't laying down any new doctrine about 40 weeks, that is just full term (9 Months)

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