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Doesn't John 3:5 require baptism for salvation?

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  • Alright thanks for the info!

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    • Baptism necessary for salvation?

      I recently left my old church the one I got saved in three years ago for a number of reasons that were too important to me that we disagreed on. They believed that baptism was necessary for salvation. They say you either believe all the bible or none of it and I agree with that. They always point to Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. My MacArthur study bible says it's better translated be baptized because of remissions of your sins. I know that baptism doesn't produce salvation. They also point to Peter 3:21 there is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, abut the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; Mark 16:16 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. ; Acts 10:48 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. and Acts 22:16 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’ . '
      They says baptism is the second part of salvation but aren't they teaching a works based salvation when they say that? Jesus didn't baptize he came to preach the gospel it is because we are saved that we are to obey him and get baptized. Baptism to me shows others that I profess Christ. Despite all these scriptures which IMHO they misinterpreted they bible says salvation come from only one way. We have Romans 10:9, John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8 and 1 Corinthians 1:17. Can someone please shed some light upon why people believe it's necessary. I have a brother in Christ who also agrees with this. Sadly my old church believes anyone who doesn't believe baptism is necessary is dying and going to hell because of this and that they need to be re baptized. This also from the church who believes if I didn't literally belong to their church (Church Of Christ) and anyone else who didn't is dying and going to hell and that Christians aren't OSAS.

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      • I had a suspicion you were going to say Church of Christ and you did at the end. They are a cult, just as any other religion that requires works for salvation. They put their trust in themselves instead of the finished work on the cross. This article came out a couple of days ago that might be helpful to you and also has additional links at the bottom for you to continue in your search: Does Baptism Save?

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        • Thanks so much Carolina guy for coming to my rescue and answering my questions once again. I knew from the moment I learned about their beliefs three years ago that something was wrong. I never believed in baptism necessary for salvation due to the bible teaching other wise. The bible doesn't contradict it self so they had to be wrong. I finally felt the that I could no longer go there. If I ever get a chance God willing to have kids I wouldn't want them to grow up learning that when it contradicted the word of God. That was the final straw for me. I love the people there but they are strongly disillusioned and I pray that God will let them see the light. I owe you a big hug one day when we get together at the feast Carolina can't wait to meet you then. As for now well

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          • Infant Baptism

            I am not looking to debate infant or adult baptism but I am looking for your knowledge.

            I once read that Luther wrote that infant baptism can give a false sense of security. Does anybody know where that is or how I can find where that is written? I did a google search and I cannot seem to find it.

            Thanks!

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            • I'm not helping here but all I can find in a quick search is that he was a strong proponant of infant baptism. I haven't read yet where he disavowed the practice.
              "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


              Jesus + something = nothing

              Jesus + nothing = Everything

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              • Originally posted by Free in Christ View Post
                I am not looking to debate infant or adult baptism but I am looking for your knowledge.

                I once read that Luther wrote that infant baptism can give a false sense of security. Does anybody know where that is or how I can find where that is written? I did a google search and I cannot seem to find it.

                Thanks!
                I did a yahoo search on Martin Luther on infant baptism & there are some links. So I suggest you go there because I do not want to put a link on here that shouldn't be.
                sigpic John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Love RR Family, Janice

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                • I'm a Presbyterian.

                  My pastor told me that personally he preferred to baptize when people got saved, but didn't mind participating in the "ritual" of dedicating one's child to God.

                  He also said, in his opinion, once was enough; unless the person requested it.

                  " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

                  Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

                  Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

                  Matthew 22:9 NIV
                  'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


                  I'm praying for you daily!
                  I get my Bibles here

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                  • In the Episcopal and I believe in the Catholic Churches, they will baptise children and then for adulthood they go through confirmation.

                    The philosophy is in baptism a person receives God's clensing of the orginal sin of Adam and Eve it is the first step in making heaven possible for an individual whether they are conscious of the act or not. Confirmation is usually done at a later age when a person has the capacity to reflect and comprehend the Holy Spirit's role in their life. It is the Spiritual maturity of a person. That does not mean a person's faith does not continue to deepen and grow for it must.

                    I hope this helps.

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                    • I attend an Assembly Of God church. We have baby dedications by the Pastor who holds the baby, lifts them up in prayer to the Lord giving them to God, while the parents stand next to him. Then he says a prayer over the parents. When the child is old enough to accept salvation through Christ they then can choose on their own to become baptized.A declaration of their salvation. This is full submersion under the water, not a sprinkle on the head.
                      I find it hard that people actually believe God would send a baby or young child to (purgatory) because they were not baptised. First off there is no such thing as purgatory. Heaven & Hell that's it. Second what if the parents of the child never got the child baptised, is that the childs fault? Age of accountability, differs from each persons maturity, mental state etc. I was born Catholic, baptised as an infant and made my First Communion. At age 15 I accepted the Lord and left the Catholic church. I got baptised at 15 and again just two years ago as I re-dedicated my heart to Jesus. My 18 year old daughter also got baptised with me. We are not saved by baptism (works) we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Just my 2 cents.

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                      • Originally posted by iSong6:3 View Post
                        I'm not helping here but all I can find in a quick search is that he was a strong proponant of infant baptism. I haven't read yet where he disavowed the practice.
                        http://www.buzzardhut.net/Catho/10.htm

                        Luther was stuck in many liturgical practices

                        Originally posted by okapi216 View Post
                        In the Episcopal and I believe in the Catholic Churches, they will baptise children and then for adulthood they go through confirmation.

                        The philosophy is in baptism a person receives God's clensing of the orginal sin of Adam and Eve it is the first step in making heaven possible for an individual whether they are conscious of the act or not.
                        The power's in the blood, not the tub!

                        http://www.buzzardhut.net/Catho/



                        Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                        Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                        Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

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                        • Faith and Hope. Catholics did not think an unbaptised baby went to purgatory but to the nicest place in Hell-"Limbo" A place that was not bad, but where one never got to see the full glory of God. They did not think God would send a baby to the place of punishment, but that without baptism the child could not go to Heaven, where purgatory is located (as a place the believer is purified,dressed for the banquet of the wedding feast of the Lamb.) Today Catholics no longer believe in Limbo, but trust the unbaptised baby to the grace and mercy of a loving God.

                          They, and other believers in Infant baptism believe that baptism is something God does for man, not something man does for God. Since God does baptism as a full, free gift He can do it for an infant as easily as for a 7 year old or an adult. Baptism is viewed as God's adoption of a child. An action that brings the child into the family of God where he is then trained in godly ways and learns to know and love his Father. Loving parents, knowing they can in no way "save" their newborn bring the baby and relinquish him/her fully to God as the adoptive parent that alone can Save. They then are raising God's child in the nuture and admonition of God. Kind of like how Hannah took care of Samuel until he was called to the Temple, She was caring for God's Child. Now Christian people may not think Infant Baptism is correct, but this is how it is thought of in Christian communities where it is thought to be the will of God and a following of Jesus command to go, teach and Baptise all. Part of the thought being that each of us continue to learn about God after our Baptism-the baby just has a little more to learn than others may have to learn.

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                          • Originally posted by cotton View Post
                            Faith and Hope. Catholics did not think an unbaptised baby went to purgatory but to the nicest place in Hell-"Limbo" A place that was not bad, but where one never got to see the full glory of God. They did not think God would send a baby to the place of punishment, but that without baptism the child could not go to Heaven, where purgatory is located (as a place the believer is purified,dressed for the banquet of the wedding feast of the Lamb.) Today Catholics no longer believe in Limbo, but trust the unbaptised baby to the grace and mercy of a loving God.
                            But where do babies go now now since limbo is out of business? As the new adoptive parent does God let them into heaven? can't see how the water ritual helps them, since God is not pleased with rituals, only faith in His son's blood atonement, not water rites.



                            Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                            Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                            Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

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                            • Originally posted by Free in Christ View Post
                              I am not looking to debate infant or adult baptism but I am looking for your knowledge.

                              I once read that Luther wrote that infant baptism can give a false sense of security. Does anybody know where that is or how I can find where that is written? I did a google search and I cannot seem to find it.

                              Thanks!
                              While I don't know about the Protestant faith in this matter I do know this problem does exist.

                              It have heard it often said in Eastern Orthodox faith that we are Saved by our infant baptism. I am of Eastern Orthodox background. That is what we were taught in Sunday School. Of cuorse the Church then undermines that with the need to fast and get confession to assure you are Sin free just in case you die. They really are confusing. Nevertheless many in the Eastern Orthodox faith think they are OK if they are Baptised.

                              It is very important for an infant to be baptised at brith and given a name. This name can be changed later at the official Baptism later. Eastern Orthodox families used to practice the baptism at birth just in case the baby died soon after (nake sure the baby is Saved and can be buried in the cemetry). With infant mortality rates not as high as they used to be in Western Nations it is not adhered to as it was in the past.

                              Unfortunately in many Eastern Orthodox Churches today they still teach the importance of infant baptism and equate that to salvation. I know many family who think they are right with God because they are baptised and fast and recieve confession regularly. Sad because they know little if anything about Jesus. The gospel message is not really taught clearly or at all in some Eastern Orthodox Churches. They put far too much emphasis on these sorts of religious rituals instead.

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                              • Originally posted by Mitsy View Post

                                Unfortunately in many Eastern Orthodox Churches today they still teach the importance of infant baptism and equate that to salvation. I know many family who think they are right with God because they are baptised and fast and recieve confession regularly. Sad because they know little if anything about Jesus. The gospel message is not really taught clearly or at all in some Eastern Orthodox Churches. They put far too much emphasis on these sorts of religious rituals instead.
                                They've obviously been duped, the old bait and switch, placing faith in something useless to God while ignoring what's most important to God




                                Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                                Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                                Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

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