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Doesn't John 3:5 require baptism for salvation?

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  • When the kids are too young (appropriate age would depend on the child) it isn't much different than baptizing an infant... and in the case of a camp atmosphere kids could be asking or agreeing to be baptized just because that is the thing that has been encouraged. Best to wait.
    Tall Timbers, Imperfect but forgiven

    3 trees

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    • Originally posted by Joyb0218 View Post
      No, I don't agree with this. Baptism has such profound, deep, personal and spiritual aspects to it (and that doesn't even describe it fully), that is should under no circumstances be taken lightly. Let alone at a camp, with parents or without parents, on children as young as 6 (I personally think that's too young). Buzz, I realize you said your one son was 6 and if you feel he is ready, than I can't go against that, but as a general rule, I would say 6 is too young.

      It just isn't the right place, I feel. Because it's such a PERSONAL decision. And even more so especially for children who may have parents who are unsaved or backslidden.

      I don't know. The situation you described does not sit right with me. My two daughters just got back from church camp. Baptism is taught, but it is NOT offered. That is a decision left up to the child, their parents and their church home.... edited to add, that at my church, they will not baptise unless the person has given a full profession of salvation and even a short scriptural written test.

      They planned it for Wednesday night because it will be during the Wednesday night service before the church.
      I don't think any of those kids are ready but they are doing it anyway.
      My boys will just watch, they might feel left out but they need to fully grasp the implications.



      Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
      Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
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      • we have always felt childhood baptism was misguided. You are right that it should not be considered until the child is personally accountable. Our 5 got baptised on the same day, but obviously they were different ages. Although they had been brought up in the faith, they reached their own descision about when to make the commitment to Jesus and then to be baptised. The day of salvation was a different day for all of them but miraculously the day they chose to be baptised was the same day. They did it in their very early teens. We baptised them at our fellowship and I'm not sure who was blessed more, us or them !! But, back on thread, you will know yourself when they are ready, and it sounds as if you will counsel them well enough so they will know too.
        For Thou art my hope, Oh Lord God Psalm 71:5
        Being confident of this very thing, that He who hath begun a good work in you, will perform it to the day of the Lord Philippians 1:6


        MY TABLET CANNOT TYPE OR SPELL

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        • I am in total agreement with you Buzz and everyone else, my youngest was baptized at 11, and I do not believe even then he truly understood what it meant, I regret that I allowed it, because I feel that has to be something are children decide when they can comprehend what it means.
          Ephesians 2:8-9
          For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

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          • Originally posted by jadbad2004 View Post
            I am in total agreement with you Buzz and everyone else, my youngest was baptized at 11, and I do not believe even then he truly understood what it meant, I regret that I allowed it, because I feel that has to be something are children decide when they can comprehend what it means.

            We always have our children wait until they are at least 16, for this very reason. Not everyone will agree with our decision (to have them wait), and that's okay, but this is generally when we think our children are ready to fully understand it and make that decision for believer's baptism (meaning, baptism follows "belief"/salvation, and that [water] baptism itself is not what constitutes salvation).

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            • Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
              They planned it for Wednesday night because it will be during the Wednesday night service before the church.
              I don't think any of those kids are ready but they are doing it anyway.
              My boys will just watch, they might feel left out but they need to fully grasp the implications.
              I hope and pray that the Holy Spirit will be with each and every child that gets baptized and that He would direct and guide. They may not understand, comprehend or be ready yet, but I'll be praying heartily for these kids.

              This is a wonderful learning lesson for your sons though. Let nothing go in vain in that through this you can teach them the implications and true weight of what baptism really means.... Which I'm sure you have probably done or will do....

              And that will be an awesome thing! I have every confidence that the Lord will give you wisdom and guidance. My oldest daughter who is 9 is going through the process of becoming baptized.

              She came to us about a month ago with a great desire to get baptized. So we met with the youth pastor, who in turn went through the scriptures with her and us and then gave us a booklet to complete with her that goes into scriptural details of baptism.

              By going through this booklet and working through it with her is wise in that by doing this, we can really know biblically whether or not she is ready just by how she answers the questions, how motivated she is to get into the Word and study it, and to even recite back to us what it all means.

              And this has been very helpful to us in knowing whether or not she is ready. Since with children at that age and not seeing the intent of the heart can be difficult. Some may disagree and say being baptized isn't that big of a deal. But with ME personally, aside from being born again, is a very big deal [edited to add: not that anyone HERE is saying that, but I meant in general... ]

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              • Don't you think to be baptised is for someone who has a believes in God and has a better understanding of what baptism means? This means it can apply to differing ages, but usually a bit older ones.

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                • Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
                  I don't see how baptism can happen until after personal salvation.
                  That is pretty much the key. I don't necessarily think it will do those children any harm though. Each will walk how he will walk, and water baptism won't change that.
                  Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

                  Joel 3:2

                  I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

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                  • Elaborate

                    Do I have to get baptistized to be filled with the Holy Ghost or is it just a public display? Is it nessecary to get into heaven? I feel GODs been telling me to do that for me and my kids, something else also, like pursue him harder and try to share the gospel lately. I'e been reading and sharing information I learn to the best of my ability quite a bit. I feel great and hope that some form of preaching will be my calling from the Lord, because all I want to do is be surrounded with people I can conversate about God with and talk to those who are willing to listen and I can inspire to look to studing the bible and have sessions based apon bible prospecy.
                    approaching God

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                    • Hi

                      Perhaps this video series could help you?
                      There are 4 videos, each around 6 or 7 minutes.

                      I believe they'll help clear some things up...they helped me.







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                      • We decided to let our daughters choose when they felt the time was right ie so that they did understand what they were doing. It proved to be the best thing we could have done with one of our daughters, because she appreciated being given the chance to think it through. She had attended several churches at one stage of her life and so could see the true meaning of baptism.

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                        • Baptism, in short, is an outward sign of an inward change. That is the way my husband always explains it. Blessings.

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                          • I believe it's an act of obedience. You get baptized after you've been saved to emulate how Christ was baptized. Once you are saved you are filled with the Holy Spirit, then you are obedient by getting publicly baptized.

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                            • You need to be saved. That is what gets you into heaven...accepting Christ as your saviour and asking forgiveness of your sins. (forgiveness is a daily thing) but Baptisium is showing the symbolisim of what Jesus did. He himself was baptised by water. You have the holy spirit withthe evidence of speaking in tongues.
                              God Bless You

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                              • You need to be saved. That is what gets you into heaven...accepting Christ as your saviour and asking forgiveness of your sins. (forgiveness is a daily thing) but Baptisium is showing the symbolisim of what Jesus did. He himself was baptised by water. You have the holy spirit withthe evidence of speaking in tongues.
                                God Bless You
                                Baptism is a symbol of obedience as mentioned already. NOT necessary for salvation, but certainly an act of rebellion if purposely avoided. Everyone is filled with the Holy Spirit when they truly accept Jesus' gift of salvation, and speaking in tongues might be an emotional manifestation of of that fullfillment but NOT an indication of higher or lower levels of the Holy Spirit within someone. It simply might be the way God chooses to manifest the Holy Spirit within that person, while the person sitting beside who has never spoken in tongues might display it by their other fruits (love, joy, patience, etc)

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