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  • #76
    Originally posted by jonshaff View Post
    ..... where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    that little word is important. the AC and FP.... ARE, they still exist, a continuation.

    I would be surprised if the NWT has not changed it to were... JWs preach annihilation
    It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

    John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

    “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”
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    • #77
      You guys make great points!

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Tall Timbers View Post
        I think that when many people refer to "Hell", they really mean the "Lake of Fire", the eternal place. I have been known to say that there is a place worse than Hell, Hell is just a temporary stop on the way.
        Yup.
        sigpic
        Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

        John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

        Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


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        • #79
          Originally posted by iSong6:3 View Post
          Originally posted by jonshaff View Post
          You guys make great points!
          Why, thank you!

          (yes they did)
          "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


          Jesus + something = nothing

          Jesus + nothing = Everything

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          • #80
            Originally posted by iSong6:3 View Post
            Why, thank you!

            (yes they did)
            Great Edification through Icons! Lol

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            • #81
              Originally posted by jonshaff View Post
              Great Edification through Icons! Lol
              You're very gracious.
              "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


              Jesus + something = nothing

              Jesus + nothing = Everything

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              • #82
                Good point. On Wally's question, my two cents is idk about the we're, but the Bible says in hell its inhabitantare tortured forever, they are killed both body and soul but it never ends. Beyond the human mind
                The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen. (Revelation 22:21) ESV

                Dispatcher from the new teenage generation

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Tall Timbers View Post
                  I think that when many people refer to "Hell", they really mean the "Lake of Fire", the eternal place. I have been known to say that there is a place worse than Hell, Hell is just a temporary stop on the way.
                  I have heard this described in a similar fashion. I once heard a preacher make the comparison that Hell is like a county jail. This is the place you are held before you go to trial. After you have been found guilty at a trial and sentenced, you are sent to state prison. The Lake of Fire is the state prison.
                  Deo Vindice!

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Compatriot G View Post
                    I have heard this described in a similar fashion. I once heard a preacher make the comparison that Hell is like a county jail. This is the place you are held before you go to trial. After you have been found guilty at a trial and sentenced, you are sent to state prison. The Lake of Fire is the state prison.
                    I like that, interesting way of putting it. Only note to be made, all at that trial will be found guilty (no O.J.'s or Cassey Anthony's at this "trial" )
                    1 CORINTHIANS 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

                    ROMANS 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
                    For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

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                    • #85
                      I read a Baptist book about the Rapture, and there was one section on hell in it, and it seemed to say there were different levels according to ones works here on earth in hell???

                      I looked at the scripture they quoted, but I couldn't read 'that' into it.

                      Has anyone heard of that before? Can anyone one find anything Biblical that could support that line of thinking?

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                      • #86
                        Matthew 25:41 NKJV
                        “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

                        Acts 1:25
                        to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”

                        Matthew 10:15
                        Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!


                        Ezekiel 18:20
                        The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.




                        The implication is God's punishment is custom. It is pure. It is True and totally appropriate.


                        But His mercy is so unfair and beyond natural man's ability to even grasp.
                        It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

                        John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

                        “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”
                        sigpic

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by jonshaff View Post
                          I'm a little confused on this.

                          Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

                          Is the lake of fire eternal?

                          I'm not trying to bring up annihilationism...but if hell and death are destroyed in the lake of fire (like everything else that goes in there) then does that make them finite?
                          If you look at Revelation 6:8 you will see two riders on a pale horse (Death and Hell).
                          Some say that these riders are symbols of some power and not a personality. We do know that this power came to be after Adam and Eve were deceived by Satan. Satan seemed to have gained the rule over this world after mankind sinned.
                          Satan's claim over bodies is suggested by his disputing with Michael over Moses' body.

                          Death speaks of a power that holds the body and Hell speaks of a power that holds the spirit and soul.

                          In Revelation, Satan loses the keys of such power after he is cast down from Heaven. Even a regular angel can bind him later.

                          The first three horses seem to have definite personalities, so my guess is that Death and Hell are bad angels under Satan's control for now, but they come under Christ's control during the breaking of the fourth seal.
                          I think the second and third angels are good angels doing God's bidding in judgement.
                          The First Angel must be Christ, since He goes forth conquering and to conquer which means He wins. The Antichist loses.
                          The bow probably represents Christ judging at a distance during the first seal, as opposed to the later great sword He uses at His coming to earth in judgement.
                          The crown given Christ must represent His rule over the earth when He comes.

                          I'm not being definite here, but it is food for thought about the possible meaning of Death and Hell being finally cast into the Lake of Fire. They could be bad angels who used to work under Satan.
                          I got most of these thoughts from William R. Newell's book on Revelation, which is the best book I ever read on the subject.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Clouds View Post
                            ..... possible meaning of Death and Hell being finally cast into the Lake of Fire. They could be bad angels who used to work under Satan.
                            .....
                            Doubtful. Look to the rest of Rev. 20:14 ....This is the second death.

                            The context doesn't allow for the meaning to imply two angelic beings.
                            sigpic
                            Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                            John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                            Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by jonshaff View Post
                              I'm not trying to bring up annihilationism...but if hell and death are destroyed in the lake of fire (like everything else that goes in there) then does that make them finite?

                              Yes, death and hades (translated "hell" in Rev 20:14) are finite in the sense that death indeed will be abolished for both believers and unbelievers in the eternal order and, yes, hades too is finite in the sense that after the millennium those in hades will be resurrected out of it and be placed in the lake of fire (gehenna) and thereafter hades will not exist anymore since it will have no occupants and thus no purpose.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Aussie Micha View Post
                                I read a Baptist book about the Rapture, and there was one section on hell in it, and it seemed to say there were different levels according to ones works here on earth in hell???

                                I looked at the scripture they quoted, but I couldn't read 'that' into it.

                                Has anyone heard of that before? Can anyone one find anything Biblical that could support that line of thinking?
                                The are certainly degress of punishment in hell, if that's what you mean by "levels." Luke 12:47-48 is pretty clear on this.

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