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  • #16
    Originally posted by Robert View Post
    4) This is God we are talking about; he can pretty much do as he pleases.
    If God said it, that settles it!, it's called faith!

    Amen Robert!

    Comment


    • #17
      Ok, so my next question would be :

      What's the point?

      Sure they choose to reject Jesus and live separately from God. And thus should be separated. But what is the point of having them on fire forever?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
        Ok, so my next question would be :

        What's the point?

        Sure they choose to reject Jesus and live separately from God. And thus should be separated. But what is the point of having them on fire forever?
        Payment for their sins.

        Someone must pay the price for your sin (and mine, and everyone else). And there are only 2 choices:

        1) You pay for your sins
        2) Jesus paid for your sins

        Sin is painful, it is ugly, it is separation from God. Why does Hell have fire? Because it was made for the angels who sinned, so that their imperfection would be eternally separated from God. The fire is punishment. It is probably there to make you regret every sinful second and regret not letting Jesus pay for your sins. However, Hell and the Lake of Fire was never reserved or intended for people, for we were originally created in a sinless environment. But when sin entered man through deception from the devil, the curse was also passed on to us. Hence, people who do not accept God's One and Only Way (faith in Jesus Christ) will also go to the same place as the fallen angels, because of their sin.

        Jesus said, "It is finished" on the cross, then he gave up His soul and died. The finishing work He did on the cross was payment for every persons sins; past, present and future for all eternity. Whether you choose to have His Blood atone (cover) for your sins is up to you. Everyone else must make this same decision.

        You see, our God is a JUST God. Justice will be served to everyone. In the end, God's love for us does not override His absolute Justice. His love gave us a way to be counted as righteous, and that was through the death of His only Son, Jesus Christ. So justice will be served: Either you pay for your sins, or Jesus paid for your sins.

        I love the old hymm:

        Jesus paid it all
        All to Him I owe
        Sin has left a crimson stain
        He washed it white as snow

        Im sorry.....I'm probably not explaining any of this very well, but it makes sense in my head

        God bless,
        - JIL

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
          If there is literal flames then how can it be a place of darkness?

          And if you are an immaterial soul how can a soul burn? Everything about pain is caused by physical reactions in your body (nerves, neuro transmitters, etc).

          And if your link it talked about hell being in the center of the earth. But Jesus talks about a place where the worm never dies.

          Worms and maggots wouldn't last long in lava.
          Everyone will be resurrected in full bodily form - some to spend eternity with Jesus - some to spend eternity in damnation.
          Revelation 20:13
          And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

          The link posted above was removed.

          The worm never dying is a metaphor for anguish (among other things).


          Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
          Ok, so my next question would be :

          What's the point?

          Sure they choose to reject Jesus and live separately from God. And thus should be separated. But what is the point of having them on fire forever?
          Hell and all who inhabit it will be cast into the Lake of Fire -
          Revelation 20:14
          And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

          How about you Rob? Is Jesus a part of your life? Has your name been written in the book of Life?

          Revelation 20:15
          And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
          sigpic
          Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

          John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

          Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by WarriorOfGod View Post
            Verses 23, 24 and 25 say that the rich man was tormented in the flames of hell,...
            Be careful to keep the various 'hells' seperated. The Rich Man was not in the Lake or Fire (aka Gehenna). He was in the 'torments' compartment of hades/sheol.
            The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
            Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
            (Psa 19:1b-2)

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by JesusIsLord View Post
              Payment for their sins.

              Someone must pay the price for your sin (and mine, and everyone else). And there are only 2 choices:

              1) You pay for your sins
              2) Jesus paid for your sins

              Sin is painful, it is ugly, it is separation from God. Why does Hell have fire? Because it was made for the angels who sinned, so that their imperfection would be eternally separated from God. The fire is punishment. It is probably there to make you regret every sinful second and regret not letting Jesus pay for your sins. However, Hell and the Lake of Fire was never reserved or intended for people, for we were originally created in a sinless environment. But when sin entered man through deception from the devil, the curse was also passed on to us. Hence, people who do not accept God's One and Only Way (faith in Jesus Christ) will also go to the same place as the fallen angels, because of their sin.

              Jesus said, "It is finished" on the cross, then he gave up His soul and died. The finishing work He did on the cross was payment for every persons sins; past, present and future for all eternity. Whether you choose to have His Blood atone (cover) for your sins is up to you. Everyone else must make this same decision.

              You see, our God is a JUST God. Justice will be served to everyone. In the end, God's love for us does not override His absolute Justice. His love gave us a way to be counted as righteous, and that was through the death of His only Son, Jesus Christ. So justice will be served: Either you pay for your sins, or Jesus paid for your sins.

              I love the old hymm:

              Jesus paid it all
              All to Him I owe
              Sin has left a crimson stain
              He washed it white as snow

              Im sorry.....I'm probably not explaining any of this very well, but it makes sense in my head

              God bless,
              - JIL

              Isn't being rejected by God enough? Having to spend eternity realizing what you lost and having to reflect on that knowing there is no way out. Isn't that enough? To me the burning and "physical soul" torment seems to be excessive and still doesn't serve a point.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
                To me the burning and "physical soul" torment seems to be excessive and still doesn't serve a point.
                Hopefully, you will choose to avoid the "excessive". The Creator of the universe has graciously given us His Word, and His Word describes Him and His method of salvation.

                Your thoughts and feelings in regards to biblical truth are irrelevant. It is the Lord who made you, and made this entire universe and the rules. He told us the Way to salvation, and the results for those who refuse.

                You either choose Him and choose life, or you don't. If you do not like the consequences, I pray you choose life.
                Jesus saith unto him, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me." John 14:6

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
                  Isn't being rejected by God enough?
                  Its not God that is doing the rejecting.


                  Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
                  Having to spend eternity realizing what you lost and having to reflect on that knowing there is no way out. Isn't that enough? To me the burning and "physical soul" torment seems to be excessive and still doesn't serve a point.
                  The Lake of Fire was prepared for 'the devil and his angels' (Mat 25:41). Presumably any perceived 'excessiveness' is due to that.
                  The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
                  Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
                  (Psa 19:1b-2)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
                    Isn't being rejected by God enough? Having to spend eternity realizing what you lost and having to reflect on that knowing there is no way out. Isn't that enough? To me the burning and "physical soul" torment seems to be excessive and still doesn't serve a point.
                    For someone who hates God, would being separated from Him really be "punishment"? Yeah, it would be to us who love Him. I think when someone understands just how Holy God is, Who is without ANY darkness, Who knows NO SIN, the all-powerful Creator of space, time, matter and life.....they will understand why the Lake of Fire is necessary. How would justice be served if those who hate him just continued on in death - doing what they have always done, only far away from Him? That's no punishment.....to them, that's utter ecstasy!

                    Sin has a price to pay, and being separated from Him for all eternity evidently was not enough to God. If you believe God is Just, like the Word says, then you must believe that the Lake of Fire is also a Just punishment....even if we dont fully understand it in our limited knowledge.

                    Maybe someone else has a better answer?

                    God bless,
                    - JIL

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
                      Isn't being rejected by God enough? Having to spend eternity realizing what you lost and having to reflect on that knowing there is no way out. Isn't that enough? To me the burning and "physical soul" torment seems to be excessive and still doesn't serve a point.
                      You seem to think that there should be a limit to this, as if the offense is limited.

                      It is because of WHO GOD IS that the punishment is so severe.

                      God is JUST, HOLY, PERFECT, and COMPLETELY INNOCENT. He is the most BEAUTIFUL, LOVELY, and WONDERFUL being that exists. He is creator and ruler of EVERYTHING that exists, and has not, cannot, nor ever will, do any wrong. To behold him in all his glory, beauty and splendor causes the "best" of us to crumple to our knees, fall on our faces, and bewail how unworthy we are.(Isaiah summed this up in Isaiah chapter 6, when he appeared before the Lord in his court in heaven).

                      AND ALL MANKIND SINNED AGAINST THIS BEAUTIFUL, SOVEREIGN GOD.

                      To put this in perspective: if you commit a crime against a man on the street, there is a sentence for that. If you were to commit the same crime against a governor or senator, the punishment becomes more severe. Against the president (or leader of whatever nation you live in), and the punishment becomes yet even more severe.

                      Now, take into consideration that God is INFINITE and HOLY. That he is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, and is totally innocent.

                      and you commit a crime against him...

                      HOW SEVERE DO YOU THINK YOUR PUNISHMENT SHOULD BE?

                      When you sin against an infinite, eternal God who is so great and mighty, your crime is infinite, eternal, and as GRAVE as God is great; thus, so is your punishment. And this is why we NEED salvation.

                      BTW: Hell was originally created for Satan and his angels. Man became subject to it when he sinned against God; so why should God lessen the degree of a pre-established punishment simply because man is now subject to it? Man got himself into this, and we have the monumental GALL to question why God would make literal flames in hell?

                      Man should be quaking in fear, not shaking his fist at God!!!

                      Yet, In his mercy, God made a way for us to escape it and be reconciled back to himself: repentant faith in Jesus Christ, his only begotten son. We didn't deserve such a thing, which is why it is called GRACE: unmerited favor.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JesusIsLord View Post
                        Payment for their sins.

                        Someone must pay the price for your sin (and mine, and everyone else). And there are only 2 choices:

                        1) You pay for your sins
                        2) Jesus paid for your sins

                        Sin is painful, it is ugly, it is separation from God. Why does Hell have fire? Because it was made for the angels who sinned, so that their imperfection would be eternally separated from God. The fire is punishment. It is probably there to make you regret every sinful second and regret not letting Jesus pay for your sins. However, Hell and the Lake of Fire was never reserved or intended for people, for we were originally created in a sinless environment. But when sin entered man through deception from the devil, the curse was also passed on to us. Hence, people who do not accept God's One and Only Way (faith in Jesus Christ) will also go to the same place as the fallen angels, because of their sin.

                        Jesus said, "It is finished" on the cross, then he gave up His soul and died. The finishing work He did on the cross was payment for every persons sins; past, present and future for all eternity. Whether you choose to have His Blood atone (cover) for your sins is up to you. Everyone else must make this same decision.

                        You see, our God is a JUST God. Justice will be served to everyone. In the end, God's love for us does not override His absolute Justice. His love gave us a way to be counted as righteous, and that was through the death of His only Son, Jesus Christ. So justice will be served: Either you pay for your sins, or Jesus paid for your sins.

                        I love the old hymm:

                        Jesus paid it all
                        All to Him I owe
                        Sin has left a crimson stain
                        He washed it white as snow

                        Im sorry.....I'm probably not explaining any of this very well, but it makes sense in my head

                        God bless,
                        - JIL
                        Actually JIL, you explained that VERY well!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Rob83,
                          You have not answered the very inportant question Steve53 asked:

                          Is your name written in the Lambs book of life? Are you saved?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
                            Isn't being rejected by God enough? Having to spend eternity realizing what you lost and having to reflect on that knowing there is no way out. Isn't that enough? To me the burning and "physical soul" torment seems to be excessive and still doesn't serve a point.
                            The thing is, every person will have the opportunity to accept Christ' atonement and will know the consequences of rejecting God...if a person knows this, the only thing that would stop them from accepting Christ' sacrifice is their disbelief because anyone who knows and believes what is coming for those that reject God, would surely turn to God.

                            You say rejection by God should be enough.....are you looking for the easy way? Do you truly believe in Hell, a place of everlasting flames?

                            Don't worry so much about why God does what He does and just know that if He said this is the way it's going to be, then you need to worry more about whether you choose to believe Him and accept Christ' sacrifice for your sins or whether you want to take the chance and see if God really means what He says.

                            We are not guaranteed another day Rob, think seriously about where you're going to spend eternity because you could die in the next 10 minutes.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Robert View Post
                              1) In a fire, smoke produced can obscure vision and even hide flames.

                              2) the dead are resurrected to physical form before they are judged:

                              "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:28-29, KJV)

                              3) Giant tube worms live near hot volcanic vents in the ocean, and actually feed off of the sulfur that comes from these vents. Giant Tube Worm So the Lord can make worms that can actually THRIVE in this environment.

                              4) This is God we are talking about; he can pretty much do as he pleases.


                              Funny thing about God....He is God....capable of things we cannot even imagine....

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Rob83 View Post
                                Is there literal fire in hell? Or is the mention of it in scripture figurative?
                                Hell is hot

                                Eternity is looooong



                                Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
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