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Soul Sleep Question (does the soul sleep or not while waiting for the Rapture)

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  • #76
    SearchingForTruth -

    To remind you of the posting rules here:

    [06] Do not promote false teachings , false prophets, heretical movements,... Soul Sleep,...

    Hootmon is doing a very good job Biblically refuting the false belief of soul sleep. You can also do a Search here to see other times this has been discussed here.

    Just wanted to add that Jesus spoke of those who were "asleep" because it was a euphemism for no longer being alive on this plane/dead. It's kind of like now we talk about "putting animals to sleep". They are not sleeping either. Dangerous to make doctrines out of such things.
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

    Jesus + nothing = Everything

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Hootmon View Post
      Invalid assumption when applied to the dead.


      Silly argument. Lets put that verse into context, eh?
      Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-- for we walk by faith, not by sight-- we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
      (2Co 5:6-8)

      'Home in the body' = 'absent from the Lord'
      'Absent from the body = 'at home with the Lord'

      As you said, Paul's preference was for the latter. However, your argument introduces a third option not mentioned in the text; that there is a state between 'at home in the body' and 'at home with the Lord'.

      My question to you is: We know that there are multiple references to dead bodies 'sleeping'. What Scripture describes the Spirit as 'sleeping'?

      Without that, your doctrine holds no water.
      Good Point because there is no scripture that describes the spirit as sleeping,only the body.
      Your right there is no state between"at home in the body"and "at home with the Lord"
      To believe so gets into the false teaching of Purgatory.
      Great post Hootmon

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by like2opr8 View Post
        I agree that absent from the body present with the Lord but how do we know we are absent from the body at the time of death? That question has always plagued me. What if our souls just stay in the body or hang around?
        The Bible tells you absent from the body, present with the lord. In a nut shell this is what happens>

        When a person is born again or quicken with the Holy Spirit IE God's Spirit you become 3.

        Now when you died here is what happens:
        1: God's Spirit goes back to him.
        2. Your soul goes right to heaven
        3. The body goes into the grave and remains until the rapture.

        Reason for the body to remain because it's corrupted, meaning it cannot enter into the Kindgom of God, but then when the dead in Christ and those who are alive are caught up in the clouds, your body that was corrupted has become uncorrupted = Glorified State, that is why the souls come back with Jesus is to receive their Glorified body.

        In other words the ones who are in heaven right now has not received their glorified body yet. They will do so when they come back with Jesus and they are reunited with their physcial body,the graves burst open and that is the glorified body,a body that will never grow old or die.Think of it like planting a seed (the physcial body)

        Before any were saved all they were was Soul and Body - living in sin
        When born again they are Soul, Spirit (God's Spirit) and body.

        "Sleep", here, means they have "died" (a "separation" from the body), not "soul sleep" as though the spirit/soul were also awaiting resurrection. For "to be absent from the body [is] to be present with the Lord." (see 2 Corinthians 5:1-8; see also 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 and context)

        "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality" (1 Cor. 15:51-53).

        This is why we do not say your spirit sleeps or what not because it is not yours, it belongs to God himself, if you want to look at what is sleeping if you want to call it that is the body without the soul. ( Or as the Klingons says it is a empty shell) till we come back with Christ to recive it during the rapture.


        Last edited by BroJimBo; April 30th, 2010, 10:44 AM.

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        • #79
          See this thread for further discussions on this topic - http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?1296...y-after-we-die
          Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right. - Charles H. Spurgeon

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Hootmon View Post
            A couple principles to keep in mind.

            1) All resurrections are physical. The word 'resurrection' literally means 'to stand up again'.

            2) The notion of the dead 'sleeping' is directly related to principle 1).
            While I agree, we must be careful to discern each and every scripture. In the case of Ezekiel 37, a literal individual bodily resurrection is not in view, but rather a re-birth of the nation Israel. In this case, the resurrection of Israel was not literal in the sense that something physical was given life after being dead: Israel does not have a body; Israel is a nation. Rather, this chapter uses figurative language that described the rebirth of the nation Israel.

            I feel like I am not describing this very well

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            • #81
              http://www.gotquestions.org/soul-spirit.html

              Question: "What is the difference between the soul and spirit of man?"

              Answer:



              The soul and the spirit are the two primary immaterial aspects that Scripture ascribes to humanity. It can be confusing to attempt to discern the precise differences between the two. The word “spirit” refers only to the immaterial facet of humanity. Human beings have a spirit, but are we not spirits. However, in Scripture, only believers are said to be spiritually alive (1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26), while unbelievers are spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13). In Paul's writing, the spiritual was pivotal to the life of the believer (1 Corinthians 2:14; 3:1; Ephesians 1:3; 5:19; Colossians 1:9; 3:16). The spirit is the element in humanity which gives us the ability to have an intimate relationship with God. Whenever the word “spirit” is used, it refers to the immaterial part of humanity that “connects” with God, who Himself is spirit (John 4:24).

              The word “soul” can refer to both the immaterial and material aspects of humanity. Unlike human beings having a spirit, human beings are souls. In its most basic sense, the word “soul” means “life.” However, beyond this essential meaning, the Bible speaks of the soul in many contexts. One of these is humanity’s eagerness to sin (Luke 12:26). Humanity is naturally evil, and our souls are tainted as a result. The life principle of the soul is removed at the time of physical death (Genesis 35:18; Jeremiah 15:2). The soul, as with the spirit, is the center of many spiritual and emotional experiences (Job 30:25; Psalm 43:5; Jeremiah 13:17). Whenever the word “soul” is used, it can refer to the whole person, whether alive or in the afterlife.

              The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God.
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              We can read in ....
              John 3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
              3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.
              4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
              5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
              9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
              10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

              We know in order to receive eternal life "ONE MUST BE BORN AGAIN"

              What about those who are not?Will they cease to exist if they died in a state of being spiritually
              dead?
              The soul of those who die lost will not cease to exist and Jesus tells us the state that the lost soul will be in upon death...
              Matthew 18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

              The SOUL will never cease to exist.The Saved will live in an eternity with the Lord and the Lost will live in an eternity of agony in the Lake Of Fire

              “Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

              The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:11-14)
              Last edited by Steve53; June 29th, 2010, 08:53 AM. Reason: Added link (attribution to original site) and formal title of article

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              • #82
                Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.
                Rom 14:8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
                Rom 14:9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.


                The Lord is the Lord of both the living and the dead. Therefore, if we are living in the presence of the Lord, when we die that does not change. We merely remain in His presence. The Bible speaks of eternal life as if we are already living in it - because we are.
                Think Heavenly
                Act Locally

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                • #83
                  Charles H. Spurgeon
                  June 29, 2010
                  Morning Reading

                  Them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
                  —1 Thessalonians 4:14

                  Let us not imagine that the soul sleeps in insensibility. "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise," is the whisper of Christ to every dying saint. They "sleep in Jesus," but their souls are before the throne of God, praising Him day and night in His temple, singing hallelujahs to Him who washed them from their sins in His blood. The body sleeps in its lonely bed of earth, beneath the coverlet of grass. But what is this sleep? The idea connected with sleep is "rest," and that is the thought which the Spirit of God would convey to us. Sleep makes each night a Sabbath for the day. Sleep shuts fast the door of the soul, and bids all intruders tarry for a while, that the life within may enter its summer garden of ease. The toil-worn believer quietly sleeps, as does the weary child when it slumbers on its mother's breast. Oh! happy they who die in the Lord; they rest from their labours, and their works do follow them. Their quiet repose shall never be broken until God shall rouse them to give them their full reward. Guarded by angel watchers, curtained by eternal mysteries, they sleep on, the heritors of glory, till the fulness of time shall bring the fulness of redemption. What an awaking shall be theirs! They were laid in their last resting place, weary and worn, but such they shall not rise. They went to their rest with the furrowed brow, and the wasted features, but they wake up in beauty and glory. The shrivelled seed, so destitute of form and comeliness, rises from the dust a beauteous flower. The winter of the grave gives way to the spring of redemption and the summer of glory. Blessed is death, since it, through the divine power, disrobes us of this work-day garment, to clothe us with the wedding garment of incorruption. Blessed are those who "sleep in Jesus."
                  Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right. - Charles H. Spurgeon

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                  • #84
                    Anddra!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by prairiedog View Post
                      In addition to the other responses, another example of why soul sleep is unbiblical can be found in Christ's parable of LAzarus and the rich man.

                      Neither Lazarus nor the rich man were unaware of their post-earthly life existence.

                      Also, when Jesus promised the repentant thief on the cross that he would be with Him that day in Paradise.
                      Jesus did not tell the thief that he would sleep in his grave until the Resurrection Unto Life.

                      And Jesus most certainly did not sleep in His tomb prior to His Resurrection.
                      It was not a parable. parables don't have specific persons names, also Jesus didn't claim it to be a parable. It is absolutely the way it was told prior to the death and resurrection of Christ.

                      After Jesus was resurrected he took paradise with Him to Heaven. The dead unbeliever still goes to Hades (Sheol) to be in conscious torment until the day of Judgment.

                      The believer goes immediately to be with our Lord in Paradise in Heaven.
                      Eternal life is not a reward for effort. It is a gift to those who trust Jesus.

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                      • #86
                        Stupid question, but I hope someone can answer

                        My brother in law (former witness) asked me this on Easter. If I dont believe in soul sleep than where did Lazerus go when he died?

                        I dont have my bible with me, and didnt look it up, but its bothering me that I didnt have a quick answer,

                        Help!! thanks

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                        • #87
                          I saw saw another thread on this - but my questions should have been - How do I answer his question clearly

                          thanks

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                          • #88
                            Hi sparky,

                            Grabbed this from GotQuestions.org:

                            Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

                            Answer: “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

                            Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

                            Hope that helps!

                            meshee
                            "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." Romans 5:1-2 NKJV

                            The word for "sun" in HEBREW is שמש/she-MESH!

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by meshee View Post
                              Hi sparky,

                              Grabbed this from GotQuestions.org:

                              Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

                              Answer: “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

                              Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

                              Hope that helps!

                              meshee
                              Thanks, that does help!!1 God bless

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                What happens when we die? Soul Sleep?

                                The bible says that when Christ comes for his church, "those dead in Christ will rise first....", but I have had pastors tell me that when we die our spirit goes to heaven immediately. So, which is correct? Do we rest here, or is our spirit in heaven and Christ comes for our bodies? Really confused....

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