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Differences between mystical meditation, contemplative prayer, and Biblical Prayer *Merged*

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  • The "contemplative" people have taken this verse out of context. If one reads the whole chapter they will see how it talks about when times around us are troubling and war is ever present, God is our ever strength and refuge- He will make wars cease. He will be with us and He wants us to be still and rely on Him; know that He is God.

    I do not see where they get contemplative prayer from this verse.


    • Originally posted by truthwarrior View Post
      The "contemplative" people have taken this verse out of context. If one reads the whole chapter they will see how it talks about when times around us are troubling and war is ever present, God is our ever strength and refuge- He will make wars cease. He will be with us and He wants us to be still and rely on Him; know that He is God.

      I do not see where they get contemplative prayer from this verse.
      Aaaahhhhhhhhh very good! Thank you!

      And my Strong's Concordance confirms your explanation. Still = raphah = to slacken, also to cease, idle, be slothful, weak, stay. Nothing there tht suggests meditation. Rather, in the context of the verse, it seems to mean "stop panicking, moving, fighting, etc. and be still."


      • Willow Creek and Focus on the Family Promote Contemplative Prayer Proponents

        Willow Creek and Focus on the Family Promote Contemplative Prayer Proponents

        Willow Creek and Emotionally Healthy Spirituality will join forces to promote Contemplative Prayer

        Contact:, 608-469-7956

        MADISON, Wisc., Sept. 22 /Christian Newswire/ -- Starting on September 15, Willow Creek will distribute the Emotionally Healthy Spirituality Church-wide study, which includes a kit, the EHS book, the EHS Group workbook, the teaching DVD, and The Daily Office.

        Emotionally Healthy Spirituality was co-founded by Pete and Geri Scazzero

        It is an organization that is supposed to "apply emotional health to biblical spirituality in order to transform leaders, relationships, churches and organizations" according to the EHS website.

        Tenet 4 of the 12 Foundational Tenets on the website states, "the church today parallels that of the Roman Empire in the 4th and 5th century.

        Following the example of Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist and Jesus, the desert fathers fled to the desert to seek God, we too must find our deserts in the midst of our activity for Christ.

        We can learn a great deal from the contemplative, monastic tradition as we seek to remain rooted as we engage the world with the gospel."

        However, many believe the desert fathers received many of their meditative techniques from Eastern beliefs or they developed spontaneously to be like the meditative techniques used in false Eastern religions.

        The father of Contemplative Prayer, Thomas Merton, is widely recognized as the person in the twenty-first century who promoted Contemplative Prayer.

        On page 17 of "Spiritual Classics" edited by Richard Foster and Emilie Griffin, it is said,

        "His (Merton's) interest in contemplation led him to investigate prayer forms in Eastern religion.

        Zen masters from Asia regarded him as the preeminent authority on their kind of prayer in the United States."

        Also, on June 21, 2009, Focus on the Family put an article on their website called "Taking Off Our 'Happy Faces' at Church" by Lynne Thompson.

        The article freely promoted the Scazzero's and their book "The Emotionally Healthy Church" (Zondervan) despite the Scazzero's promotion of Contemplative Prayer.

        Other endorsers of the Scazzero's include John Ortberg (Menlo Presbyterian Church)

        and Dr. Jack Hayford (President of the International Foursquare Churches).

        A rebuttal article on Contemplative Prayer by Marcia Montenegro

        For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)


        • BTW on a side note:

          Trinity Church of Omaha Nebraska where Les Beauchamp is the current pastor

          (disappointed in him cause a few years ago I had respect for him but he has gone down the seeker and emergent path so fast)

          well, Trinity church of Omaha Nebraska has been very supportive of the teachings of Pete Scazzero and John Ortberg and other contemplative promoters

          (just mentioning that as a warning for folks in Omaha area who maybe reading this to avoid that church at all costs

          and also for those who go there. I know of folks who sadly go there

          BTW: Trinity Church is also part of the infamous Willow Creek Association


          Ray Yungen on what really Contemplative Prayer is and who promotes it

          Ray Yungen on Emerging Church & Intersprituality

          For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)


          • I just threw away all my Dr. Dobson books..... I am sickened that he has fallen into this mysticism.


            • This makes me so sad...I have always supported Focus and have looked to that ministry for resources so many times as my children have been growing up


              • I used to go to Trinity Church in Omaha about 8 years ago. I am happy that I was saved through the gospel of sin and repentance before I attended through reading the bible independently because I probably would be believing some pretty messed up stuff these days.

                I don't know how messed up the place is now but when I went there they had a "fresh start" program there in which a different gospel was prached in which Jesus died to change your personality. Another time I was in Terra Nova (which was led by Matthew Anderson from Waypoint in Omaha) which was a singles thing there and then one day everyone in the room just started chanting and babbling and jumping and dancing around all at once and this was a room of around 50 people (very cult like). Finally, another time I walked into a room in which the same pastor was in the room and people were getting "baptized in the spirit" and they were flailing around on the ground and falling down like a Benny Hinn show. I remember another time I went to a small group and they were all praying and chanting and rubbing oil on each other's hands and a girl there was talking about her "prophetical visions" that God was giving her. I remember they also had meditation in the basement and I was invited to it and I saw it.

                While attending Trinity I felt out of place or like people were consistently telling me things that weren't true and doing things that seemed strange. I'm glad that I never followed the crowd but instead studied the crowd and compared it to God's Word.

                Now they have a leader that promotes contemplative spirituality? Doesn't surprise me...



                • It is important to first define “contemplative prayer.” Contemplative prayer is not just “contemplating while you pray.” The Bible instructs us to pray with our minds (1 Corinthians 14:15), so, clearly, prayer does involve contemplation. However, praying with your mind is not what “contemplative prayer” has come to mean. Contemplative prayer has slowly increased in practice and popularity along with the rise of the emerging church movement—a movement which embraces many unscriptural ideas and practices. Contemplative prayer is one such practice.

                  Contemplative prayer, also known as “centering prayer,” is a meditative practice where the practitioner focuses on a word and repeats that word over and over for the duration of the exercise. While contemplative prayer is done differently in the various groups that practice it, there are similarities. Contemplative prayer involves choosing a sacred word as the symbol of your intention to consent to God's presence and action within. Contemplative prayer usually includes sitting comfortably and with eyes closed, settling briefly and silently, introducing the sacred word as the symbol of your consent to God's presence and action within. When a contemplative pray-er becomes aware of thoughts, he/she is to return ever so gently to the sacred word.

                  Although this might sound like an innocent exercise, this type of prayer has no scriptural support whatsoever. In fact, it is just the opposite of how prayer is defined in the Bible. “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.” (Philippians 4:6). “In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete” (John 16:23-24). These verses and others clearly portray prayer as being comprehendible communication with God, not an esoteric, mystical meditation.

                  Contemplative prayer, by design, focuses on having a mystical experience with God. Mysticism, however, is purely subjective, and does not rely upon truth or fact. Yet the Word of God has been given to us for the very purpose of basing our faith, and our lives, on Truth (2 Timothy 3:16-17). What we know about God is based on fact; trusting in experiential knowledge over the biblical record takes a person outside of the standard that is the Bible.

                  Contemplative prayer is no different than the meditative exercises used in Eastern religions and New Age cults. Its most vocal supporters embrace an open spirituality among adherents from all religions, promoting the idea that salvation is gained by many paths, even though Christ Himself stated that salvation comes only through Him (John 14:6). Contemplative prayer, as practiced in the modern prayer movement, is in opposition to biblical Christianity and should definitely be avoided.

                  Contemplative spirituality is an extremely dangerous practice for any person who desires to live a biblical, God-centered life. It is most commonly associated with the emerging church movement, which is riddled with false teachings. It is also used by many different groups that have little, if any, connection with Christianity.

                  In practice, contemplative spirituality is primarily centered on meditation, although not meditation with a biblical perspective. Passages such as Joshua 1:8 actually exhort us to meditate: “Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.” Notice what the focus of meditation should be—the Word of God. Contemplative spirituality-driven meditation focuses on nothing, literally. A practitioner is exhorted to completely empty his/her mind, to just “be.” Supposedly, this helps one to open up to a greater spiritual experience. However, we are exhorted in Scripture to transform our minds to that of Christ's, to have His mind. Emptying our minds is contrary to such active, conscious transformation.

                  Contemplative spirituality also encourages the pursuit of a mystical experience with God. Mysticism is the belief that knowledge of God, spiritual truth, and ultimate reality can be gained through subjective experience. This emphasis on experiential knowledge erodes the authority of Scripture. We know God according to His Word. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17). God's Word is complete. There is no reason to believe that God adds additional teachings or truths to His Word through mystical experiences. Instead, our faith and what we know about God is based on fact.

                  The website for the Center for Contemplative Spirituality sums it up well: “We come from a variety of secular and religious backgrounds and we each seek to enrich our journey through spiritual practice and study of the world's great spiritual traditions. We desire to draw closer to the loving Spirit which pervades all creation and which inspires our compassion for all beings.” There is absolutely nothing biblical about such goals. Studying the world’s “spiritual traditions” is an exercise in futility because any spiritual tradition other than that which exalts Christ is falsehood. The only way to draw closer to God is through the path He has ordained—Jesus Christ and the Word.

                  Since the 1990s there has been an increased focus on mysticism within various segments of Christianity. Bordering on the esoteric, these mystical experiences broaden the division between a "factual faith" and a "felt faith," and threaten to replace sound biblical teaching with emotion-driven response. Soaking prayer is one such mystical activity. It is described as resting in God's presence. This is accomplished by playing some gentle worship songs, either sitting or lying down, and praying short, simple prayers for an extended period of time, but otherwise keeping your mind free of other thoughts. At the point when you sense God's presence through some type of manifestation like tingling skin, a sensation of heat or cold, or even a gentle wind seemingly blowing through your body, you are to just "soak" in that presence.

                  Candles—and other lights such as Christmas decorations—can remind us that Jesus is the Light of the World. Candles can remind us to put our “trust in the Light so that [we] may become sons of Light” (John 12:36). Having a candle burning while we pray might serve to focus our prayers and thoughts on Jesus as the Light of the world.

                  What candles cannot do, however, is accompany our prayers to heaven, make our prayers more powerful or effective, add anything to our prayers, or pray for us in any way. Candles burning in a Roman Catholic church, for example, are thought to continue the pray-er’s petition long after he/she has left the church. This is unbiblical. Prayer is a conversation with our heavenly Father—a dialogue between two live, conscious, responsive beings who share the same Spirit. No candle can enter into such a relationship.

                  Candles are used in various types of worship rituals. Witches and shamans, Catholics, new-agers, some Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus all use candles in their worship services. Lighting votive candles is also consistent with the emerging worship trends that embrace mystery, mysticism, and entering into reality through experience.

                  In the end, the use of candles in prayer is innocent in itself. The danger is in ascribing to them a power they simply don’t possess.

                  Although that might sound a little strange to some, it does not immediately come across as being necessarily bad. However, the rule by which we measure our experiences in life is the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and when soaking prayer is examined accordingly, we find that it comes up wanting for biblical support. Nowhere in the Bible can a model of prayer be found that soaking prayer follows.

                  Prayer in its simplest form in the Bible is calling on the name of the Lord (Genesis 4:26), and in each instance where it is found in Scripture, it is descriptive of communicating with God. Soaking prayer starts that way, but quickly devolves into a trance-like meditative state. This is when soaking prayer ceases to be biblical and becomes more like a New Age practice or something an adherent of Hinduism would participate in.

                  There is no denying that experiencing the presence of God can be powerful and life changing. It is not the goal of soaking prayer that is biblically off base; it is its methodology. Soaking prayer focuses on obtaining a spiritual high by seeking out the presence of God through mystical exercises. In this it is very similar to ”contemplative prayer” and contemplative spirituality, which are equally unbiblical. Biblical prayer is talking to God with His will in mind (1 John 5:14). A biblically praying believer already understands that God's presence is always with him (Psalm 139:7; Matthew 28:20; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 1 Thessalonians 4:8; 2 Timothy 1:14), and he doesn’t need to experience any type of physical sensation to prove it.

                  Many people believe answered prayer is God granting a prayer request that is offered to Him. If a prayer request is not granted, it is understood as an “unanswered” prayer. However, this is an incorrect understanding of prayer. God answers every prayer that is lifted to Him. Sometimes God answers “no” or “wait.” God only promises to grant our prayers when we ask according to His will. “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him” (1 John 5:14-15).

                  What does it mean to pray according to God’s will? Praying according to God’s will is praying for things that honor and glorify God and/or praying for what the Bible clearly reveals God’s will to be. If we pray for something that is not honoring to God or not God’s will for our lives, God will not give what we ask for. How can we know what God’s will is? God promises to give us wisdom when we ask for it. James 1:5 proclaims, “If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.” A good place to start is 1 Thessalonians 5:12-24, which outlines many things that are God’s will for us. The better we understand God’s Word, the better we will know what to pray for (John 15:7). The better we know what to pray for, the more often God will answer “yes” to our requests.

                  Paul’s command in 1 Thessalonians 5:17 to “pray without ceasing,” can be confusing. Obviously, it cannot mean we are to be in a head-bowed, eyes-closed posture all day long. Paul is not referring to non-stop talking, but rather an attitude of God-consciousness and God-surrender that we carry with us all the time. Every waking moment is to be lived in an awareness that God is with us and that He is actively involved and engaged in our thoughts and actions.

                  When our thoughts turn to worry, fear, discouragement, and anger, we are to consciously and quickly turn every thought into prayer and every prayer into thanksgiving. In his letter to the Philippians, Paul commands us to stop being anxious and instead, “in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God” (Philippians 4:6). He taught the believers at Colossae to devote themselves “to prayer, being watchful and thankful” (Colossians 4:2). Paul exhorted the Ephesian believers to see prayer as a weapon to use in fighting spiritual battles (Ephesians 6:18). As we go through the day, prayer should be our first response to every fearful situation, every anxious thought, and every undesired task that God commands. A lack of prayer will cause us to depend on ourselves instead of depending on God's grace. Unceasing prayer is, in essence, continual dependence upon and communion with the Father.

                  For Christians, prayer should be like breathing. You do not have to think to breathe because the atmosphere exerts pressure on your lungs and essentially forces you to breathe. That is why it is more difficult to hold your breath than it is to breathe. Similarly, when we are born into the family of God, we enter into a spiritual atmosphere where God's presence and grace exert pressure, or influence, on our lives. Prayer is the normal response to that pressure. As believers, we have all entered the divine atmosphere to breathe the air of prayer.

                  Unfortunately, many believers hold their “spiritual breath” for long periods, thinking brief moments with God are sufficient to allow them to survive. But such restricting of their spiritual intake is caused by sinful desires. The fact is that every believer must be continually in the presence of God, constantly breathing in His truths, to be fully functional.

                  It is easier for Christians to feel secure by presuming on—instead of depending on—God's grace. Too many believers become satisfied with physical blessings and have little desire for spiritual ones. When programs, methods, and money produce impressive results, there is an inclination to confuse human success with divine blessing. When that happens, passionate longing for God and yearning for His help will be missing. Continual, persistent, incessant prayer is an essential part of Christian living and flows out of humility and dependence on God.

                  The most obvious hindrance to effective prayer is the presence of unconfessed sins in the heart of the one who is praying. Because our God is holy, there is a barrier that exists between Him and us when we come to Him with unconfessed sin in our lives. “But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear” (Isaiah 59:2). David concurred, knowing from experience that God is far from those who try to hide their sin: “If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened” (Psalm 66:18).

                  The Bible refers to several areas of sin that are hindrances to effective prayer. First, when we are living according to the flesh, rather than in the Spirit, our desire to pray and our ability to effectively communicate with God are hindered. Although we receive a new nature when we are born again, that new nature still resides in our old flesh, and that old “tent” is corrupt and sinful. The flesh can gain control of our actions, attitudes, and motives unless we are diligent to “put to death the deeds of the body” (Romans 8:13) and be led by the Spirit in a right relationship with God. Only then will we be able to pray in close communion with Him.

                  One way living in the flesh manifests itself is in selfishness, another hindrance to effective prayer. When our prayers are selfishly motivated, when we ask God for what we want rather than for what He wants, our motives hinder our prayers. “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us” (1 John 5:14). Asking according to God’s will is the same as asking in submission to whatever His will may be, whether or not we know what that will is. As in all things, Jesus is to be our example in prayer. He always prayed in the will of His Father: “Yet not my will, but yours be done” (Luke 22:42). Selfish prayers are always those that are intended to gratify our own selfish desires, and we should not expect God to respond to such prayers. “When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures” (James 4:3).

                  Living according to selfish, fleshly desires will also hinder our prayers because it produces a hardness of heart toward others. If we are indifferent to the needs of others, we can expect God to be indifferent to our needs. When we go to God in prayer, our first concern should be His will. The second should be the needs of others. This stems from the understanding that we are to consider others better than ourselves and be concerned about their interests over and above our own (Philippians 2:3-4).

                  A major hindrance to effective prayer is a spirit of unforgiveness toward others. When we refuse to forgive others, a root of bitterness grows up in our hearts and chokes our prayers. How can we expect God to pour out His blessings upon us undeserving sinners if we harbor hatred and bitterness toward others? This principle is beautifully illustrated in the parable of the unforgiving servant in Matthew 18:23-35. This story teaches that God has forgiven us a debt that is beyond measure (our sin), and He expects us to forgive others as we have been forgiven. To refuse to do so will hinder our prayers.

                  Another major hindrance to effective prayer is unbelief and doubt. This does not mean, as some suggest, that because we come to God convinced that He will grant our requests, He is somehow obligated to do so. Praying without doubt means praying in the secure belief and understanding of God’s character, nature, and motives. “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him” (Hebrews 11:6). When we come to God in prayer, doubting His character, purpose, and promises, we insult Him terribly. Our confidence must be in His ability to grant any request that is in accordance with His will and purpose for our lives. We must pray with the understanding that whatever He purposes is the best possible scenario. “But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does” (James 1:6-7).

                  Finally, discord in the home is a definite obstacle to prayer. Peter specifically mentions this as a hindrance to the prayers of a husband whose attitude toward his wife is less than godly. “Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers” (1 Peter 3:7). Where there is a serious conflict in family relationships and the head of the household is not demonstrating the attitudes Peter mentions, the husband’s prayer communication with God is hindered. Likewise, wives are to follow the biblical principles of submission to their husbands’ headship if their own prayers are not to be hindered (Ephesians 5:22-24).

                  Fortunately, all these prayer hindrances can be dealt with at once by coming to God in prayers of confession and repentance. We are assured in 1 John 1:9 that “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” Once we have done that, we enjoy a clear and open channel of communication with God, and our prayers will not only be heard and answered, but we will also be filled with a deep sense of joy.

                  In Luke 18:1-7, Jesus uses a parable to illustrate the importance of persevering in prayer. He tells the story of a widow who came to an unjust judge seeking justice against her adversary. Because of her persistence in prayer, the judge relented. Jesus’ point is that if an unjust judge will grant the petition of someone who perseveres in a request for justice, how much more will the God who loves us—“his chosen ones” (v. 7)—answer our prayer when we keep praying? The parable does not teach, as is mistakenly thought, that if we pray for something over and over, God is obligated to give it to us. Rather, God promises to avenge His own, to vindicate them, right their wrongs, do them justice, and deliver them from their adversaries. He does this because of His justice, His holiness, and His hatred of sin; in answering prayer, He keeps His promises and displays His power.

                  Jesus gives another illustration of prayer in Luke 11:5-12. Similar to the parable of the unjust judge, Jesus’ message in this passage is that if a man will inconvenience himself to provide for a needy friend, God will provide for our needs far more, since no request is an inconvenience to Him. Here again, the promise is not that we will receive whatever we ask if we just keep asking. God’s promise to His children is a promise to meet our needs, not our wants. And He knows our needs better than we do. The same promise is reiterated in Matthew 7:7-11 and in Luke 11:13, where the “good gift” is further explained to be the Holy Spirit.

                  Both of these passages encourage us to pray and to keep praying. There is nothing wrong with repeatedly asking for the same thing. As long as what you are praying for is within the will of God (1 John 5:14-15), keep asking until God grants your request or removes the desire from your heart. Sometimes God forces us to wait for an answer to our prayers in order to teach us patience and perseverance. Sometimes we ask for something when granting it is not yet in God's timing for our lives. Sometimes we ask for something that is not God's will for us, and He says “no.” Prayer is not only our presenting requests to God; it is God’s presenting His will to our hearts. Keep on asking, keep on knocking, and keep on seeking until God grants your request or convinces you that your request is not His will for you.

                  According to the Bible, the power of prayer is, quite simply, the power of God, who hears and answers prayer. Consider the following:

                  1) The Lord God Almighty can do all things; there is nothing impossible for Him (Luke 1:37).

                  2) The Lord God Almighty invites His people to pray to Him. Prayer to God should be made persistently (Luke 18:1), with thanksgiving (Philippians 4:6), in faith (James 1:5), within the will of God (Matthew 6:10), for the glory of God (John 14:13-14), and from a heart right with God (James 5:16).

                  3) The Lord God Almighty hears the prayers of His children. He commands us to pray, and He promises to listen when we do. “In my distress I called to the LORD; I cried to my God for help. From his temple he heard my voice; my cry came before him, into his ears” (Psalm 18:6).

                  4) The Lord God Almighty answers prayer. “I call on you, O God, for you will answer me” (Psalm 17:6). “The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles” (Psalm 34:17).

                  Another popular idea is that the amount of faith we have determines whether or not God will answer our prayers. However, sometimes the Lord answers our prayers in spite of our own lack of faith. In Acts 12, the church prays for Peter’s release from prison (v. 5), and God answers their prayer (vv. 7-11). Peter goes to the door of the prayer meeting and knocks, but those who are praying refuse at first to believe that it is really Peter. They prayed he would be released, but they failed to expect an answer to their prayers.

                  The power of prayer does not flow from us; it is not special words we say or the special way we say them or even how often we say them. The power of prayer is not based on a certain direction we face or a certain position of our bodies. The power of prayer does not come from the use of artifacts or icons or candles or beads. The power of prayer comes from the omnipotent One who hears our prayers and answers them. Prayer places us in contact with Almighty God, and we should expect almighty results, whether or not He chooses to grant our petitions or deny our requests. Whatever the answer to our prayers, the God to whom we pray is the source of the power of prayer, and He can and will answer us, according to His perfect will and timing.

                  Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
         |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                  Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim


                  • Good post, Buzz. The greatest danger of Contemplative Prayer and its ilk is that it opens up the way for demons to enter in. In exactly the same way that New Agers are deceived.
                    Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right. - Charles H. Spurgeon


                    • Thank you!!! Very in-depth explanation, very helpful.


                      • Originally posted by Mommytoa3rdgradeboy View Post
                        I've heard that people 'empty their minds' but is that not impossible? I can't turn my thoughts off for a second-especially at bedtime. I mean, aren't there always thoughts running through a person's head? I constantly have at least one though running through my head at any given time. Just curious.
                        When they say "empty minds" they don't truly mean no thought, but instead they don't keep attached to the thoughts. When a thought comes up, they acknowledge it, and it goes away. It's the closet thing they can come up with.

                        The following was something I posted in the Yoga thread before a moderator informed me this thread was here, so I figure I'll copy/paste it here. In it someone mentioned how Mediation allows demons in.

                        I do have a question though: Is all meditation negative? Is there such thing as Christian meditation?

                        The main reason I ask is because of the following scripture

                        Joshua 1:8 "Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful"

                        Psalm 1:2: But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
                        and on his law he meditates day and night.

                        The word meditate or meditation appears 73 times in the Old Testament, and twice in the New Testament. The Bible itself would seem to support that Jesus himself meditated.

                        I think a big problem is that when we hear "meditation" we tend to think of the Eastern Mysticism version of it. For example, the leader of the worldwide Trancendental Meditation movement defined meditation in a commonly viewed say, and said ""Transcendental Meditation opens the awareness of the infinite reservoir of energy, creativity and intelligence that lies deep within everyone.""

                        Obviously that is in no way compatible with Christianity. Eastern Meditation is about trying to find or create Heaven on Earth. When Jesus was in the desert he was meditating, but his mind wasn't blank, he wasn't practicing breathe techniques, he wasn't concentrating on his navel. What he did was capture all of his thoughts to the the obedience of God. Wouldn't this mean that Christian Meditation would be perfectly fine, even biblical, as long as the people who did so were not trying to find "inner peace" or to forget about trouble, but instead just pondered on issues and let the Holy Spirit govern them?

                        I'd argue that Godly meditation is perfectly fine. Godly meditation wouldn't be to ignore what is happening, to just withdraw from the world and escape into the depth of your mind, but instead just be more of a form of prayer, a form of letting the Holy Spirit guide you without having your pride and other emotions override it, and then use it to face your problems head on. Honestly, Meditation in itself is just deep thinking. It's practically the same as pondering, but on a more in-depth level. Nothing more then someone finding a quite place (or any place) where they can ponder the Word of God and focus on turning their mind towards the will of God


                        • Contemplative prayer

                          Can anyone either give me a website that has quick to absorb information or post concise bullet points here as to what is the problem with this movement because it is new to me and is being introduced in our church.

                          I don't have a lot of time available and the sites I found were long winded and didn't show the problem with the issue very well.

                          Many thanks.


                          • The Emergent worship focuses on Centering Prayer as a method of prayer, which prepares them to receive the gift of God's presence. Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices of the Christian contemplative heritage, notably the Fathers and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio Divina, (praying the scriptures), The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. It was distilled into a simple method of prayer in the 1970’s by three Trappist monks, Fr. William Meninger, Fr. Basil Pennington and Abbot Thomas Keating at the Trappist Abbey, St. Joseph’s Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts” (
                            - Rapture Ready, The Emergent Church Movement,

                            another link for you to check out:


                            I hope this is what you are looking for.


                            • What or how is this contemplative praying done? I see it called "Centering Prayer" but I have no idea what that means. How would this contemplative praying be different than how normal believers pray? Excuse my ignorance, I'm still researching all these different apostate teachings.


                              • Hi Robert, I am very familiar with the Emergent Movement and how that has departed from the authority of the Bible and Christ as the only way to God. I need to isolate Contemplative Prayer as a separate topic.