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Question about Romans 11:25 - is this a Calvinistic teaching?

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  • Question about Romans 11:25 - is this a Calvinistic teaching?

    I've been trying to share the good news about the rapture, and also that it's not based on events or dates, but when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I gave Romans 11:25 as the reference, and also an explanation from Jack Kelley.

    Now I'm being accused of sounding Calvinistic and promoting a Calvinistic doctrine/belief. They asked me why would God have a certain number?
    I told them just because it sounds Calvinistic doesn't mean it is. I'm NOT a Calvinist and I don't think Mr. Kelley was either. (sigh)
    How can I make them understand?
    love in Christ Jesus & prayers,
    Lynda

    I am ready to go!!!

  • #2
    You don't sound Calvanistic to me, and you can't make them understand...
    Tall Timbers, Imperfect but forgiven

    3 trees

    Comment


    • #3
      Unfortunately, for those questioning, if God, in His infinite wisdom, cannot predetermine a number known only to Himself, then who can?
      sigpic
      Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

      John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


      Comment


      • #4
        I can see how some might think it sounds Calvinistic.
        And as I think about it, why does God have a specific number in mind? Why do a certain number of gentiles needed to be saved before the rapture can take place?

        Someone said it sounds similar to the false doctrine of a predetermined number of ppl getting saved.
        love in Christ Jesus & prayers,
        Lynda

        I am ready to go!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sing4thelord View Post
          i can see how some might think it sounds calvinistic.
          And as i think about it, why does god have a specific number in mind? Why do a certain number of gentiles needed to be saved before the rapture can take place?

          Someone said it sounds similar to the false doctrine of a predetermined number of ppl getting saved.
          **like**
          --------Eric H. Bowen

          sigpic 16 inch Armor Piercing: When you care enough to send the very, very, best!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sing4theLord View Post
            I can see how some might think it sounds Calvinistic.
            And as I think about it, why does God have a specific number in mind? Why do a certain number of gentiles needed to be saved before the rapture can take place?

            Someone said it sounds similar to the false doctrine of a predetermined number of ppl getting saved.
            Insofar as it concerns the pride of men to do so, trying to outsmart God isn't going to work. Yes, the Bible informs us that the full number of the Church is finite and known only to God. And that predetermined number perhaps can be best likened to an open invitation banquet with a limited number of seats at the table. Once all the seats have been taken, the doors are closed to further entry. So it's not an individual choosing of who will be saved and who won't be saved by God, it's merely a notification that it's first come, first served. And space is limited so don't delay. Today is the day of decision.
            sigpic
            Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

            John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

            Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


            Comment


            • #7
              Am I permitted to voice disagreement? The God I worship is infinite...continually expanding without limits.
              --------Eric H. Bowen

              sigpic 16 inch Armor Piercing: When you care enough to send the very, very, best!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ehbowen View Post
                Am I permitted to voice disagreement? The God I worship is infinite...continually expanding without limits.
                I guess I'm confused. What is it specifically you are disagreeing with? I ask because I have not seen anyone posit that God has limits.
                sigpic
                Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Steve53 View Post

                  Insofar as it concerns the pride of men to do so, trying to outsmart God isn't going to work. Yes, the Bible informs us that the full number of the Church is finite and known only to God. And that predetermined number perhaps can be best likened to an open invitation banquet with a limited number of seats at the table. Once all the seats have been taken, the doors are closed to further entry. So it's not an individual choosing of who will be saved and who won't be saved by God, it's merely a notification that it's first come, first served. And space is limited so don't delay. Today is the day of decision.
                  Well said, thank you!

                  Absolutely not trying to argue, but just for my information, where is the scripture where it says there is a finite number? I only want to know so I can be better informed.
                  love in Christ Jesus & prayers,
                  Lynda

                  I am ready to go!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Steve53 View Post

                    I guess I'm confused. What is it specifically you are disagreeing with? I ask because I have not seen anyone posit that God has limits.
                    I disagree with your contentions that "the Bible informs us that the full number of the Church is finite" and, "space is limited." Whosoever will, may come.
                    --------Eric H. Bowen

                    sigpic 16 inch Armor Piercing: When you care enough to send the very, very, best!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sing4theLord View Post

                      Well said, thank you!

                      Absolutely not trying to argue, but just for my information, where is the scripture where it says there is a finite number? I only want to know so I can be better informed.
                      The same verse we're talking about refers to the full number albeit in an abstract way.
                      sigpic
                      Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                      John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                      Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ehbowen View Post

                        I disagree with your contentions that "the Bible informs us that the full number of the Church is finite" and, "space is limited." Whosoever will, may come.
                        While certainly true that whosoever will, may come, it doesn't change the fact that seating is limited. What we must remember is that God, knowing the end from the beginning, has already seen who will come and made reservations accordingly.

                        https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bib...pecific-event/
                        Q The one point that you make in your writing on which I have not been able to agree is that the Rapture will be a number specific event. For it to be so would require that it be up to the church (man) to determine the time of the Rapture, taking the ultimate decision away from God. I always felt that this explanation does not accurately reflect the way Godís mind works, knowing that He is a very specific time keeper. I would be so pleased to hear your thoughts on this topic because it has been one of the sticking points for me in understanding the full picture regarding the rapture.


                        A When the Bible says God makes known the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10), I believe it means He knew every detail about how things will turn out before He started anything. He knew the full number of the Church, when that number will be reached, and how it will coincide perfectly with every other detail in His grand plan for mankind. The fact that we donít know these details simply means He decided not to tell us.
                        God is not waiting around for the Church to evangelize the world. He knew we wouldnít do that from the beginning. Thatís why Heíll send an angel to do it after the Church is gone (Rev. 14:6).

                        sigpic
                        Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                        John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                        Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Looking at Israel and Egypt, I see God waiting for all the things to fall into place before He makes the next move. He had a hard hearted pharaoh, a people ready to leave and a man ready to lead them-- sort of. He still had to get Moses ready. He had to finish pharaoh. And, He had to still work on the people. But, the time was right to move on and He did.
                          The Rapture is the same way. God is not 'waiting' for number 847,566,213,001to show up someplace. He will know when the Time of the Gentiles' is over and will move to the next step of His plan. His plan is the important one and we're kinda just riding along.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dealiam View Post
                            Looking at Israel and Egypt, I see God waiting for all the things to fall into place before He makes the next move. He had a hard hearted pharaoh, a people ready to leave and a man ready to lead them-- sort of. He still had to get Moses ready. He had to finish pharaoh. And, He had to still work on the people. But, the time was right to move on and He did.
                            The Rapture is the same way. God is not 'waiting' for number 847,566,213,001to show up someplace. He will know when the Time of the Gentiles' is over and will move to the next step of His plan. His plan is the important one and we're kinda just riding along.
                            But if some event or accumulation of earthly events is determinant, that removes God's sovereignty from the equation. When Paul used the expression "full number" remember he was a fisherman and the phrase he used was common among seafaring men to mean the full compliment of men required to take a vessel to sea. It's a number specific event. The longer Satan can delay and stall folks coming to saving faith, the longer the wait for the rapture.
                            sigpic
                            Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                            John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                            Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Our 'Time' is finite but God is operating outside of the finite plus in the finite. I highly doubt that satan will disturb God's plan in any way. You are forgetting that God already has satan figured into His plans--either that, or He is not sovereign and we are in deep trouble. God knows the beginning from the end. He did not jump back when Adam did his foolishness and say...'Oh My, I need to come up with a new idea' We were already covered for Adam's sin and our sinful nature. (Romans 5 & 6)
                              Rev. 14 shows us that God is still evangelizing the world even during the Tribulation using angels and a bunch of Jewish men. As near as I can tell, the Rapture has happened before the Tribulation so God is still calling the shots and more will be saved after the Church leaves.

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