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Would I be in rebellion to God's Word If.....

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  • Would I be in rebellion to God's Word If.....

    I attended a church with a female pastor leading it?

  • #2
    I wouldn't go, but that's me.

    " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

    Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

    Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

    Matthew 22:9 NIV
    'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


    I'm praying for you daily!
    I get my Bibles here

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    • #3
      Why wouldn't you? Can you explain please?

      Comment


      • #4
        Scripture is quite clear that pastor's are to be male. So if there is a female pastor then the whole church is disobeying Scripture...if they disobey in one area then more likely they are disobeying in other areas too. Why would one want to attend a church that is rebelling against God?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sonshine777 View Post
          I attended a church with a female pastor leading it?
          No you wouldn't be in rebellion to God's Word, Sonshine 777, but you would be in rebellion to the "traditions of men".

          Comment


          • #6
            This is God's Word on the subject:
            "Let a woman quietly recieve instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet." I Timothy 2:11-12

            The only way I could see a church being led by a female pastor and in accordance with God's Word is if the only people attending it are women and children.

            Comment


            • #7
              1 Tim 2:12 is one of the classic verses about women that are taken entirely out of context and twisted. This is God's Word on that subject:

              "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. - 2Pe 3:14 KJV

              And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; - 2Pe 3:15 KJV

              As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2Pe 3:16 KJV

              Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, BEWARE lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. - 2Pe 3:17 KJV

              But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen. - 2Pe 3:18 KJV

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                1 Tim 2:12 is one of the classic verses about women that are taken entirely out of context and twisted. This is God's Word on that subject:

                "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. - 2Pe 3:14 KJV

                And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; - 2Pe 3:15 KJV

                As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2Pe 3:16 KJV

                Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, BEWARE lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. - 2Pe 3:17 KJV

                But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen. - 2Pe 3:18 KJV
                I don't see anything about the role of women in the church mentioned in any of the verses that you quoted, but since you want context, let's look at context and background. Paul is writing to Timothy on the organization of the church in this epistle. Immediately before talking about women in church, Paul talks about how men are to behave in church. Later he talks about the qualifications for bishops (also translated overseers) and deacons.

                I Timothy 2:7-3:7
                7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
                Chapter 3
                1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

                8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain, 9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.11 Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. 12Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus."

                It seems quite clear to me, from the context of this passage that God wants men to lead the church.

                But there is also a passage, I Corinthians 14:34-35, if there is any doubt about what women should be doing during church:

                "34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

                I'll grant that this passage is about maintaining order within the church service, and preventing outbursts, but both of these passages are quite clear in their wording and context about the role of women in the church, and it is not one of leader.
                Last edited by ArkieTuzi; May 13th, 2018, 11:00 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ArkieTuzi View Post

                  I don't see anything about the role of women in the church mentioned in any of the verses that you quoted,
                  Note the underlined words. The warning to beware of being led astray with the error of the wicked applies to "all" of Paul's epistles and what he's written about.

                  "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. - 2Pe 3:14 KJV

                  And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother
                  PAULalso according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; - 2Pe 3:15 KJV

                  As also
                  IN ALL [his] EPISTLES speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2Pe 3:16 KJV

                  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, BEWARE lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. - 2Pe 3:17 KJV

                  But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen. - 2Pe 3:18 KJV


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't think it matters if they are male or female as long as they speak Bible truth

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Watcher, the idea that this passage only refers to women of child bearing age is, quite frankly, ludicrous. Only women of child bearing age are to behave and dress modestly, with good works as their beauty? Seriously? I suppose if one reaches menopause, then one can just let it all hang out! After all, childbearing age is over, and by your assertion this passage only refers to that time period.

                      But that is not what this passage says. And that is not what the passage in 1st Corinthians says, either.

                      ETA:The reference to bearing of children refers not to age but sphere of influence, and is a nod by Paul to the godly women who raised Timothy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. (1Ti 2:12-14)

                        Since Paul is reaching back to Adam and Eve it is an indication he is referring to all women and not just those of that culture, and because he points out the fact that Eve was the one deceived, he strengthens the reason a woman should not be in authority over a man. So no, I would not place myself in submission to a woman pastor. 1Cor 11:1-16 further elaborates on this matter of authority.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Intheair View Post
                          I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. (1Ti 2:12-14)

                          Since Paul is reaching back to Adam and Eve it is an indication he is referring to all women and not just those of that culture, and because he points out the fact that Eve was the one deceived, he strengthens the reason a woman should not be in authority over a man. So no, I would not place myself in submission to a woman pastor. 1Cor 11:1-16 further elaborates on this matter of authority.
                          Yes, it really is that simple. Women are allowed to teach and to learn, but they are not to be over men in the heirarchy of the church. Because that's what it clearly says in these verses.
                          So who do they teach? Younger women and children.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Watcher

                            This is the "traditional" line of thinking. It's partly based on a misinterpretation of these verses, which I'll be getting to shortly. But to think that males are somehow immune to deception by other males, not only doesn't make sense, it contradicts what the Bible teaches. The entire Bible continually warns both men and women to beware lest they be led astray. The facts are that 99% of false teachers in both the OT and NT are males.

                            For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: - Tit 1:10 KJV
                            Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. - Tit 1:11 KJV


                            When Paul refers to the circumcision, he's referring to the male Jewish religious leaders. Paul calls them deceivers. These were the false teachers and troublemakers of the day. See also Acts 11:2, 1 Thess 2:14-15, Gal 2:11-13, Titus 1:9-14, etc. It's almost always religious leaders who subvert the truth. Even in our day, the majority of religious leaders are males.

                            You've brought up another subject, which is the place of the pastor in the organized church system today. Huge problems there as well.
                            No one is denying the fact that men can be deceived as well. Perhaps it is to be taken that women are more susceptible to deception than men?
                            The fact is though, because Paul used that as a basis for women not to have authority over men, it should carry Divine weight, unless we are going to question Paul's authority...I'm not.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Watcher
                              For the male to exercise church discipline is the proper order because it was Adam who, being formed first, was charged with GUARDING the Garden, Gen 2:15. This was the established pattern from the beginning. It was the man's responsibility to protect the garden from internal and external threats before the woman was even created, but he failed.
                              He may have failed in his duty, but he was not deceived, he willingly disobeyed, that is the issue. Sound teaching involves rightly dividing truth from deceptive error.

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