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Some teach that Pre-tribbers are misleading us

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  • #91
    Originally posted by ronbo477 View Post
    In the great tribulation God is dealing with the Jewish people and the completion of evil. Maybe evil cannot completely manifest itself until we are out of here?
    Could you imagine how absolutely difficult it would be for the anti-Christ to gain control if he has all the true Christians in his face everyday screaming ANTICHRIST ANTICHRIST!!! Yes I believe we will be removed by His grace for we were not meant to suffer His wrath, but also God will allow satan to have what he wants. Control of this world.

    This is RR's article on the Restrainer being removed as Paul describes.

    http://www.raptureready.com/resource/stanton/k5.htm

    He will already have the 144,000 to deal with plus the 2 witnesses with absolute power.

    The only thing with post trib people that angers me is their constant "so when God doesn't rapture you you will forsake Him!"

    Ok. I'll slightly entertain this argument which I have absolutely no reason to believe in mid/post rapture. I still have God's game plan. It would be obvious at that point it was a flaw of MINE to understand. But I still have way more to support the Bible as the living breathing word of God!!

    It's the silliest counter argument.
    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

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    • #92
      I believe the rapture will wake up a lot of fence sitters and they will be the ones who get killed for not following the AC, most posties believe in works for salvation, and/or works to stay saved. pretribbers are grace thru faith.



      Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
      Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
      Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
        I believe the rapture will wake up a lot of fence sitters and they will be the ones who get killed for not following the AC, most posties believe in works for salvation, and/or works to stay saved. pretribbers are grace thru faith.
        Funny you mention the fence thing. I've been telling a lot of people time is closing in. You will have to choose a side. There's Gods way. There's all the other options. Sitting on the fence is still in satans advantage.

        Your post rings true. At that point you will have to come down on one side or the other.
        Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
          I believe the rapture will wake up a lot of fence sitters and they will be the ones who get killed for not following the AC, most posties believe in works for salvation, and/or works to stay saved. pretribbers are grace thru faith.
          I believe that to be accurate. There will be many that turn to Christ after the rapture. The personal price will be high. Most will be killed, but not all. Among other things, the martyrs will wait for their ranks to be filled.

          People only have to look at the recent post-election antics for a very small preview of coming attractions. If people act like that when they don't get their way on something simple in a time where there is still restraint, how will they act once the actual restrainer has been removed and *you* the believer are considered public enemy #1? It is *not* a time you want to be hanging around, or even standing in one spot for too long in my opinion.
          -------------------------------------
          www.needGod.com by Living Waters / Ray Comfort
          Hell's Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort / Living Waters
          This guy has some awesome sermons:
          http://www.getalifemedia.com/
          or to shortcut to a *great* series: The Final Countdown Youtube playlist by Billy Crone

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          • #95
            Originally posted by zhan View Post
            I believe that to be accurate. There will be many that turn to Christ after the rapture. The personal price will be high. Most will be killed, but not all. Among other things, the martyrs will wait for their ranks to be filled.

            People only have to look at the recent post-election antics for a very small preview of coming attractions. If people act like that when they don't get their way on something simple in a time where there is still restraint, how will they act once the actual restrainer has been removed and *you* the believer are considered public enemy #1? It is *not* a time you want to be hanging around, or even standing in one spot for too long in my opinion.
            With all the demonstrations of power my Lord has given the world (flooded it for judgement, used His own blood to atone for the worlds sins) I have no idea why it's such a hard thing for people to fully entrust Jesus with their salvation and believe we could be "caught up" as 1 Thesolonoans 5:9 states.

            I thought a lot about people who would be woken up by a pre-trib. My wife for example, has had to witness my soul on fire with the Holy Spirit. She doesn't get it. What's she gonna think when I'm gone? If my kids are truly saved (I believe but not my place) and they are gone as well then what? Probably would get her to change her mind a little. Maybe she'll fall for the deception but I think there are others with loved ones going on and on about a pre trib so it could be a perfect call for God to get some to rethink it.
            Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

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            • #96
              I've never understood the anger towards the pre trib rapture folks from the mid to post rapture folks. It's not a salvation issue and they are joining Jesus in the air the same as we are. But they act as though it is a salvation issue which is puzzling.
              For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

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              • #97
                Ok question,

                If once saved always saved, and if we look at the rapture as a non salvation issue, wouldn't that dramatically increase the number of people raptured?? Seems like we have a really high number at that point?
                Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by BorrowedTime View Post
                  Ok question,

                  If once saved always saved, and if we look at the rapture as a non salvation issue, wouldn't that dramatically increase the number of people raptured?? Seems like we have a really high number at that point?
                  There will be more people raptured than believe in the pre-trib rapture (1 Thess 5:10 says, "that, whether we watch or whether we sleep [see verse 6; this is not "death" being referred to here], we should live together with Him")... however, I've noticed over the years that a very high percentage of people who DON'T hold to the pre-trib view ALSO hold to incorrect "salvation" doctrine (meaning, they ADD something TO "Christ and His finished work alone" for salvation)... and thus, are not saved. And I think we all believe "NSNR" (not saved, not raptured. )

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by acceptedintheBeloved View Post
                    There will be more people raptured than believe in the pre-trib rapture (1 Thess 5:10 says, "that, whether we watch or whether we sleep [see verse 6; this is not "death" being referred to here], we should live together with Him")... however, I've noticed over the years that a very high percentage of people who DON'T hold to the pre-trib view ALSO hold to incorrect "salvation" doctrine (meaning, they ADD something TO "Christ and His finished work alone" for salvation)... and thus, are not saved. And I think we all believe "NSNR" (not saved, not raptured. )
                    I can see that.

                    I was only recently saved (late Oct/Nov) and have yet to be baptized. And it's not for a lack of want to make the public testimony but the old church I was attending uses the number of baptisms as a "we've done this". I couldn't help but feel dirty being baptized there and am waiting. I have found a good church so far and after Sunday's service I'm hoping it will be cemented at which point I'll seek out the processs.

                    Point being, it's been brought to my attention that I "have" to be baptized in order to be saved. Only requirements I've seen for salvation

                    1) repent
                    2) admit you are and will be flawed, deserving of the payment of death
                    3) believe in His work
                    4) put ALL your faith in HIS work!

                    Not in a rush to baptize. Wanna do it right. If tonight the trump blows I know Jesus has my back!!
                    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

                    Comment


                    • Welcome to the Family, Borrowed Time! You are right about being saved and that baptism does not save you. But remember, Jesus told us to repent and be baptized," and He, Himself was baptized. I can't explain to you the beautiful feeling involved in the symbolism of baptism; being buried with Christ and raising again to a new creation. It is really awesome!
                      1 Thessalonians 5:4 (New International Version)

                      4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

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                      • Originally posted by twisty58 View Post
                        Welcome to the Family, Borrowed Time! You are right about being saved and that baptism does not save you. But remember, Jesus told us to repent and be baptized," and He, Himself was baptized. I can't explain to you the beautiful feeling involved in the symbolism of baptism; being buried with Christ and raising again to a new creation. It is really awesome!
                        Thank you!

                        Totally agree! I'm eager to do it for sure! But the last church I was at was a "seeker sensitive" church and the very last sermon I attended I listened to the Holy Spirit clear as day ask me "Do you want to bring people to me? Or to this church??" Didn't feel right to get baptized there.
                        Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

                        Comment


                        • I have no doubt that I am saved, but my baptism was not very good. I had been sprinkled as a baby, and got the "3 pourings" in the catholic church, but once I was truly saved I started attending a Baptist church and eventually out of obedience felt that I should be baptized. I guess it was also part of joining the church. Well, the morning of the baptism, just beforehand, the church fire alarm went off so it was delayed. Twice. Needless to say, by the time I was getting dunked it was not as powerful I guess because I was distracted. But I am so glad it isn't about our feelings!
                          "Therefore my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable,
                          always abounding in the work of the Lord;
                          knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain."

                          1 Corinthians 15:58 (ESV)

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                          • Originally posted by Firefly View Post
                            I have no doubt that I am saved, but my baptism was not very good. I had been sprinkled as a baby, and got the "3 pourings" in the catholic church, but once I was truly saved I started attending a Baptist church and eventually out of obedience felt that I should be baptized. I guess it was also part of joining the church. Well, the morning of the baptism, just beforehand, the church fire alarm went off so it was delayed. Twice. Needless to say, by the time I was getting dunked it was not as powerful I guess because I was distracted. But I am so glad it isn't about our feelings!
                            My old church is hosting baptisms on Sunday. They do them once a month. This Sunday is also my first service at my new church (hopefully).
                            Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

                            Comment


                            • Pre-Trib....cannot be true based on 2Thessalonian 2:3

                              Paul says " let no man deceive you by any means: for that day(Jesus 2nd coming/rapture) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin(Antichrist) revealed, the son of perdition.'

                              By process of elimination, pre-trib is out based on this verse.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by KA2016 View Post
                                Paul says " let no man deceive you by any means: for that day(Jesus 2nd coming/rapture) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin(Antichrist) revealed, the son of perdition.'

                                By process of elimination, pre-trib is out based on this verse.
                                You are also assuming that the 2nd Coming and rapture are the same event. They are not. There has been enough research on the translation of "falling away" that shows its meant from sound biblical teaching. Not a full on revolt against God.

                                Also context context context. This is Paul's second letter to Thessalonians. Meaning he is correcting something he has already taught them.

                                1 Thessalonians 4 13-18

                                13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
                                Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

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