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  • #46
    Originally posted by Hootmon View Post
    The First Resurrection is a resurrection of Life. It has multiple 'phases', with Christ being the firstfruits.

    The Second Resurrection is a resurrection of condemnation. There is only one phase and that occurs at the Great White Throne judgment.
    Can you give scriptures sowing these "multiple phases" and not opinions as to why? Thanks.

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    • #47
      Matt, this is a pre-Trib board only, just so you know. It wasn't originally but we found we spent too much time debating the issue and we just wanted our own oasis on the interwebz.

      Here is a great site presenting the case for a pre-Trib Rapture (with Scripture, of course) and related topics. I suggest you start with Dr Thomas Ice. http://pre-trib.org/articles
      "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


      Jesus + something = nothing

      Jesus + nothing = Everything

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Hootmon View Post
        The First Resurrection is a resurrection of Life. It has multiple 'phases', with Christ being the firstfruits.

        The Second Resurrection is a resurrection of condemnation. There is only one phase and that occurs at the Great White Throne judgment.
        Agreed. And "each one in his own order." (1 Cor 15:23)

        Daniel, an OT saint, was told that he would die, but "stand in [his] lot at the end of the days." (Daniel 12:13; context being "at the end of the trib" that is being described in Daniel 12).

        OT saints believed (as they were promised) in the resurrection (which will occur at the time of commencement of their promised/prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth) ... that they would stand again on the earth (resurrection)... and the "many" who were resurrected at the time of Jesus' death and resurrection (Matt 27:52-53) were a sampling of these OT saints (... they "went into the holy city," and this is what will take place at that future "gathering together" of the elect of Israel, Matt 24:29-31, 31; Isaiah 11:12, etc, into one place upon the earth, "AFTER the tribulation of those days" [the context being the second-half-trib/end-of-trib]).

        Paul, on the other hand, was the first to explain and reveal anything about a (pre-trib) rapture, which involves a "resurrection" at that same time also, a resurrection of those believers who have died "IN CHRIST" (that is, believers of this Church-age dispensation, i.e. the Body of Christ [whose "citizenship is in heaven," heavenly]), 1 Thess 4:16-17, 5:8-10; 2 Cor 5:1-4, 4; 1 Cor 15:51-53, 53.

        So where the concept of a "resurrection" is being talked about, in Scripture, one must distinguish whether it is referring to "the Church," or to "OT saints" or to "trib saints" (or even to "the two witnesses" IN the trib, etc), and distinguish the things which differ, amongst those passages.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by matt11390 View Post
          Please believe me I am not being argumentative but just trying to find reconciliation in scriptures and what is being said here. Rev 20 is the only scripture that speaks of a specific timing of the resurrection, first that is.

          I hear and read "why" we will be raptured before the second coming but no specific scriptures give a timing. Many say we will escape God's wrath so we have to raptured before the trib. Or some use other scripture references like 1 Thessalonians but the fact is Rev 20 speaks about "when" the resurrection, or rapture, will happen.

          Can someone give a scriptural reference to resurrections before the second coming. No attempts for logical reasons why we will be raptured but scripture showing when. Please this will help me a lot. The rapture that we hold to so dearly is the resurrection. Thanks.
          acceptedinthebeloved explains it nicely above.

          1/3 of Israel will receive their salvation at the 2nd coming (not the rapture of the church, the body of Christ). Zechariah 13:9, 1 Peter 1:7-9.

          It's important to let Israel be Israel, as they have specific promises and conditions in the tribulation. We today currently have the whole package of salvation. We have no purpose in tribulation. 2 Thessalonians 2:5-8 .. The body of Christ, the one new man has to be removed before that wicked be revealed.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by matt11390 View Post
            Can you give scriptures sowing these "multiple phases" and not opinions as to why? Thanks.
            http://www.gotquestions.org/resurrec...st-second.html

            If you have specific questions feel free to ask.
            The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
            Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
            (Psa 19:1b-2)

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            • #51
              Originally posted by matt11390 View Post
              Can you explain if this is true why Rev. 20:1-6 describes the event as the first resurrection?
              The issue is that the word translated "first" there is "protos" and it can mean either "first in time" or "first in rank." For example, Paul refers to himself as the "chief" of sinners using the word "protos" and obviously he does not mean he was the first sinner to ever exist.

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              • #52
                Good answers!



                Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by iSong6:3 View Post
                  Matt, this is a pre-Trib board only, just so you know. It wasn't originally but we found we spent too much time debating the issue and we just wanted our own oasis on the interwebz.

                  Here is a great site presenting the case for a pre-Trib Rapture (with Scripture, of course) and related topics. I suggest you start with Dr Thomas Ice. http://pre-trib.org/articles
                  Thanks and one of the reasons I like coming to this forum is that is a pre-trib. I was saved at age 19, I'm much older now, and grew in the faith under the pre-trib view so I am familiar with it. To be honest I'm not sure when the rapture will happen and to be honest I'm not concerned because I trust God's wisdom and timing for it. I have been careful not to argue with other believers on this matter because in the grand scheme of things it is truly irrelevant to our salvation and our service because we are saved no matter when the rapture happens and we continue to faithfully serve until the rapture happens.

                  Thanks you all for your answers and look forward to further discussions and the fellowship.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by iSong6:3 View Post
                    Matt, this is a pre-Trib board only, just so you know. It wasn't originally but we found we spent too much time debating the issue and we just wanted our own oasis on the interwebz.

                    Here is a great site presenting the case for a pre-Trib Rapture (with Scripture, of course) and related topics. I suggest you start with Dr Thomas Ice. http://pre-trib.org/articles
                    See PM...
                    Isaiah 41:10

                    Fear not, for I am with you; Be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, Yes, I will help you, I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.

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