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Psalm 83 War & Fall of Damascus

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  • Originally posted by Caver View Post
    Hi and welcome to the board.

    I completely agree that the Gog/Magog event is a little further down the line.

    Ps. 83, however, to me is not a war at all but a prayer. The first half identifies the nations surrounding Israel today as conspiring to harm Israel. The second half petitions God to take vengeance on them.

    Isiah 17 is the answer to that prayer and the next war on the horizon. The nations "round about" will be defeated but with great harm to Israel and leaving her close to defenseless. The Gog/Magog event will follow with Israel having no where to turn but to God.

    Oh well, just my take on events. Again, welcome to the board.
    I pretty much agree with the 1st two posts.

    I tend to think, after much research also, as with the opening post, that Isaiah 17 and psalm 83 happen about that same time. This places the peoples nearest Israel defeated and Israel feeling safe.

    That is what makes that order of prophecy fulfillment making the most sense to me.

    And when Ezekiel showing that God's purpose for allowing the Gog/Magog war, is to turn Israel back to Him, not salvation, just a recognition that God is Who is watching, protecting and keeping Israel in their land.

    Ezekiel 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day forward.
    Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)

    11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
    You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
    12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
    O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



    Pre-Flood!
    Thanks for the citizen title Hoot!

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    • Originally posted by Jesus's Girl View Post
      So, will we be here for the Isaiah 17 or Ezekiel 38-39 War or do you think we will be raptured before then? Does the blindness in part of Israel mentioned by Paul (I think it was Paul) have to do with the Church here on earth? Will we be raptured first then God will turn to Israel for Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39???
      We know that nothing, prophetically, has to happen before the Rapture. So it is possible that we are still here for Is. 17, Ps, 83 and Ezekiel 38/39.

      I suspect we will be here for these events, but I believe that the Rapture would most likely happen after these events.

      But we do not know, just the season we are told, when the Rapture happens, and as we have seen every single time, the date setters have been 100% wrong.

      I think the best time for knowing when the Rapture happens, is when it happens........
      Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)

      11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
      You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
      12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
      O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



      Pre-Flood!
      Thanks for the citizen title Hoot!

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      • Originally posted by Homesick777 View Post
        I can't possibly imagine this coming conflict holding off until 2011. The convergence of a multitude of geopolitical circumstances just won't seem to allow it.
        Considering the ebb and flow of prophetic events, it is quite easy to see this conflict lasting into 2011. Although the M.E. grows more volatile every day, events can suddenly enter a period of quiet, so to speak. We are on God's time clock and what looks like full speed ahead can hit a stagnant point just as easily, as has been proven in the past.

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        • I absolutely agree that Armageddon and Gog war are 2 different battles. Gog is before the trib (or great trib anyway) and Armageddon is at the end of the Great trib, obviously.

          We see the descriptions and results of the battles as completely different. I tend to think that Is 17 (and now, after this discussion, Psalm 83 - and could be quite possibly a prayer to trigger Is 17 (need to study that more)) being part of a trigger for the Gog war.

          After so many discussions, this one is going very well. I have been studying Ezekiel in chapter order and Ezekiel seems to be following a time line in the order of the chapters.

          And I found it enlightening that even Netanyahu said that Ezekiel 37 had been fulfilled.

          I guess that is what makes us excited and more able to be knowledgeable watchmen on the wall.
          Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)

          11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
          You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
          12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
          O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



          Pre-Flood!
          Thanks for the citizen title Hoot!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ngraham
            I just don't get where Jack Kelley and Chuck Missler see Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 as two different battles. Again, I thought as most others do here, Ps. 83 is the prayer and Is. 17 is the answer to that prayer.
            I don't know either. I'm thinking Isaiah 17 is one result of a Psalm 83 War.

            Ezekiel 38:11 depicts Israel as living securely in a land of unwalled villages, perhaps a result of a Psalm 83 War also.

            A Psalm 83 War is up in the air. I don't think we can say with certainty that it's a war. Perhaps it's only a prayer? Dunno!

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            • Originally posted by ngraham
              I agree... Gog-Magog and Armageddon are 2 different wars, 2 different time periods, 2 different outcomes. I just don't get where Jack Kelley and Chuck Missler see Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 as two different battles. Again, I thought as most others do here, Ps. 83 is the prayer and Is. 17 is the answer to that prayer.
              Originally posted by curly_g View Post
              I don't know either. I'm thinking Isaiah 17 is one result of a Psalm 83 War.

              Ezekiel 38:11 depicts Israel as living securely in a land of unwalled villages, perhaps a result of a Psalm 83 War also.

              A Psalm 83 War is up in the air. I don't think we can say with certainty that it's a war. Perhaps it's only a prayer? Dunno!
              Same here.

              Simply speaking, there is no battle in Ps 83. It just ain't there.

              Comment


              • Why do you believe what you believe on timing of Gog/Magog war?

                Why do you believe the Gog/Magog war will happen at the beginning of the Trib or just before the Tribulation begins? What scripture leads you to believe in that timing?

                I don't "know" of course what the timing is but I believe that this war will be in the middle of the tribulation - because Scripture says that Israel will be dwelling securely (which is seems the treaty with the Anti-Christ promises. I guess that this war will be Mid-Trib, that while we know that the one true God will destroy these armies as they come against Israel, I suspect that Anti-Christ will claim that he was responsible for the victory and because of the miraculous deliverance of Israel it will be the trigger that causes him to declare himself God and sit in the rebuilt temple as God.

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                • Originally posted by ngraham
                  I agree... Gog-Magog and Armageddon are 2 different wars, 2 different time periods, 2 different outcomes. I just don't get where Jack Kelley and Chuck Missler see Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 as two different battles. Again, I thought as most others do here, Ps. 83 is the prayer and Is. 17 is the answer to that prayer.
                  Originally posted by ngraham
                  OK now I have a question for Mrs. C. All this time, I have believed as you have. That Ps. 83 is the prayer, Is. 17 is the answer to that prayer and Is. 17 and Gog-Magog are 2 different battles, and they are NOT the battle of Armageddon. Now here's the question:

                  I was catching up on some of my Jack Kelley reading and it seems that he feels that Ps. 83 and Is. 17 are 2 different battles and neither are the battle of Armegeddon (that latter part, I agree with.)
                  He says that the Ps. 83 is a battle that takes care of all of Israel's surrounding neighbors. Is. 17 is a separate battle which leaves Damascus in a ruinous heap. So I thought, OK. If that's what you think, none of us knows it all, and we are obviously going to differ in opinions. No big deal.
                  Then I had recorded Chuck Missler on the International Prophecy Conference on our DVR. So I was watching it before I went to bed and he said the same thing. Ps. 83 is a battle that takes care of all of Israel's neighbors and Is. 17 takes care of Damascus. They are 2 separate battles.

                  I don't understand how they come to this conclusion. I don't see a battle in Ps. 83. I see a prayer asking for God's deliverance, but no battle in and of itself. I have alot of respect for both of these guys and have learned much from both of them. But I just don't understand how they can be so different from how we believe?
                  I have read and studied Chuck Missler, Jack Kelley, and many others for years. Like you, I admire them both, but that doesnt mean we have to accept, everything that someone teaches. For example, Chuck Missler has said on occasion, that there would be Scripture he has read many times, and never paid much attention to, then the Holy Spirit shows him that same Scripture in a different light. I personally owe being led to Christ by Hal Lindsey, but that doesnt mean I agree with everything he says, there are a few things he says that I disagree with. As for Jack Kelley, from what Ive read, he concurs
                  with two different questioners, that there is no war in Psalm 83, and that it is a Prayer

                  The study of Gods Word, should always be a joyful experience, that brings us peace. Strife and confusion is not of Him. We are His Children, and as a Loving Father, He makes it simple for us, not complicated. He wants His Children to understand, not be confused. We are to rely on the Word of God, have the discernment of the Holy Spirit, and not depend entirely on the commentary of man, no matter how learned, for they are fallible. For me personally, I have followed the writings of many solid, and in the past, not so solid writers-teachers for many years. By His Grace, by the discernment of the Holy Spirit, I have learned when to recognize the "itchy ear" writings and teachings also as Timothy warned us it would be in these days.
                  2 Timothy 4:3-4
                  3.For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
                  4.And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

                  What we are seeing before our eyes, is the isolation of Israel, with the prospect of a multiple fronted war, just as the Word of God said would happen. As God tells us in Isaiah 17, the surrounding enemy nations of Israel, will indeed be left desolate. But also He tells us, that Israel herself will barely survive. Vulnerable and severely wounded, this sets the stage for the Ezekiel invasion. In addition, God has Ezekiel dedicate eight chapters to the Judgment that He will unleash on these nations surrounding Israel. We all need to continue to study His Word, seek Him, our Lord Jesus, the guidance and discernment of His Holy Spirit. We also need to Pray greatly for Israel, and her people.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ngraham
                    Thank you Mrs. C. I agree 100% with what you are saying. Before I came to RR, I'd never heard of the Ps. 83 prayer and Is. 17 battle before. But after reading about it here, I studied and came to the same conclusions that you have.
                    I don't know why I let this bother me as much as it did. This is the first time something like this has nudged like this has. Me thinks I need to keep these guys off the pedistal I have them on and remember that they are just believers like I am. Learned believers all the same, but still believers and can error just as the rest of us can.

                    Thanks for taking the time to help me.
                    Yes , we are all the same in His eyes Your welcome, its truly my privilege

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                    • Here are some links I found about Psalm 83 from Rapture Ready links. http://www.raptureready.com/soap/psalm83-1.html http://www.raptureready.com/soap/psalm83-2.html
                      sigpic John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Love RR Family, Janice

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                      • I hope those links help us all understand this scenario better. Sometimes, I feel like my head is spinning trying to keep up with how these events occur. You are so welcome & I hope it helps everyone who reads it.
                        sigpic John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Love RR Family, Janice

                        Comment


                        • Ezekiel 28 v 24-26 describes a war with Israel's neighbors- NIV.

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                          • I agree...Prayer and Prophecy

                            Originally posted by Chris View Post
                            Yes, it is a prayer as well as a prophecy.

                            http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bibl...pray-psalm-83/

                            Who Will Pray Psalm 83?

                            Q. Re: Psalm 83. This plea to the Lord is for the Lord to do all these things to Israel’s neighbors. That conveys that the nation recognizes the Lord and is asking for His help. Wouldn’t their eyes need to be opened and their hearts turned to Him to ask Him to help them as a nation to defend them against those who are trying to wipe them out of existence?

                            A. Psalm 83 is not a prayer that will need to be prayed when the time comes. It’s a prayer that was sent up to the Lord already and is waiting for the event to catch up. There’s really nothing modern day Israel has to do for God to act on this prayer. There’s been an action item on His to-do list for 3000 years now. He knew the latter-day nation would be out of covenant, but He also knew they would need to win this battle to create the conditions for His prophecy in Ezekiel 38-39. So He had Asaph record this prayer when Israel was still in covenant and then He made sure no subsequent battle could be confused with Psalm 83 so when Israel wins we will know He answered Asaph’s prayer.
                            I just ordered "Isralestine" by Bill Salus (looking forward to reading it), and have been reading his website for about a month now. When he discussed Psalm 83, and how it may be a "precursor" to Isaiah 17, and Ezekiel 38-39, I had an "Aha!" moment, because it would be the defeat of her surrounding enemies and Damascus, Syria that would bring down "the wrath of Khan" on Israel from Iran, Russia, and those "satellite" leftover Islamic states. It also explains her living in "unwalled" relative "peace" before Iran et al come against her.

                            I looked up the name "Asaph" in Strong's, and it means "collector", so one has to make of that whatever one will. However, I do believe it is a prayer and a prophecy, and one that will exceedingly soon be fulfulled. With B.O. pushing Israel to divide Jerusalem, give up more land to the Palis, and actually emboldening Israel's enemies (Hamas/Hezbollah)to attack her, I see Psalm 83 as very soon, and the "Roadmap to Peace", devised by idiots , as going to Hell where it belongs.

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                            • Psalm 83 Explained

                              By Dr. David R. Reagan

                              What is the next prophetic event that will happen in the Middle East?

                              Many prophecies concerning that area of the world have recently been fulfilled. For example, the Bible prophesized that in the end times the Jews will be re-gathered from the four corners of the world — an amazing development that occurred in the 20th century and which continues today. The Bible also prophesized that as the results of that regathering, the state of Israel would be reestablished — a momentous event that occurred on May 14, 1948. Jesus himself prophesized that one day the city of Jerusalem would be reoccupied by the Jews, and that event took place on June 7, 1967. Finally, the biblical prophets stated that once the nation of Israel was reestablished all the world would come together against it over the issue of who would control Jerusalem. And that is exactly what is happening today.

                              So, what's next? Most believe that it will be an invasion of Israel lead by Russia accompanied by a number of Muslim nations. But, Bill Salus, the author of Isralestine, believes otherwise. He thinks the next great prophetic event in the Middle East will be a war between Israel and all the Arab nations that share a common border with it. Where does he get that idea? Who is going to win that war? And what will be the consequences? Bill has been kind enough to be interviewed and answer these questions.

                              Q) Ezekiel 38 and 39 speaks of a great invasion of Israel in the end times. Most people believe this is going to be lead by Russia together with a lot of Muslim nations. And there are some problems with this, because most Bible prophecy scholars until you came on the scene believed that this would be the next major prophetic event. But, the problem is that in Ezekiel 38 and 39 it says over and over that Israel would be living securely. For example, in chapter 38 and in verse 11, "they will be living without walls," and in verse 14, "they will be living securely." And that is not the situation in Israel today. And yet people have said, well it is just a relative thing and they are relatively living securely, but they are not. So how could this be the next event when that condition has not been met?

                              A) With all the elbow rubbing and muscle flexing that Russia is doing these days, it does appear as though this would be the next prophecy that would be fulfilled. I did an article called: "Psalm 83 Verses Ezekiel 38: Which is the Next Middle East News Headline." In that article I discussed six to seven reasons as to why Israel is not in that condition yet for Russia to invade. They are now dwelling securely. I have a chapter in the book called "Israel Dwelling Securely," and the "Yisreal Yasbab Betach." They are not dwelling securely. They had 4,000 rockets logged at them from Hezbollah and so forth in the summer of 2000. And, they are not dwelling without walls, which is another condition they have to be in. They have a 403 mile wall that at some point they have almost finished completing. At some points it is 20 feet high, all to keep the Palestinian terrorist element out of Israel proper. They are not dwelling in the center of the land. This is the new one I discovered. It says in Ezekiel 38 that Israel is "in the midst of the land" when Russia comes against them. And the Hebrew word is tabbuwr. And we have to wonder what (and that means "center" in the language) portion of land was he really talking about. Was he talking about that portion of land allotted to the Jewish State in 1947 with UN Resolution 181 of the Partition Plan, or was he perhaps talking about the land allotted to the Jewish people in Genesis 15:18 when God promised Abraham that he would give Him land from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates River, which is of course through Syria and Iraq, which would put the center of that land in Jordan. And, as I get into the book and hopefully discuss some of this stuff, I talk about how Israel will annex land and will find themselves in possession of Jordan. They are not dwelling securely. They are not one of the wealthiest nations in the world, nor acquired exceedingly great plunder that Russia also comes after. We are given a hint as to the motive of Russia and the consortia of Russian alliance that comes against Israel. They are coming for exceedingly great plunder. Some suspect that since Israel is drilling for oils these days with Zion Oil that they will come into a new found wealth of oil under their own soil. And they might. And there a lot of Zion Oil, prophetic oils out there. They tie in connecting passages of the Old Testament where they believe that it is foretold that Israel will find oil. However, I don't think it will be limited to that. I believe that it will be the exploitation of their resources, as Israel expands and conquers over Psalm 83 Arab nations.

                              Q) Ezekiel 38 and 39 doesn't mention any of the Arab nations that have a common border as being part of the invasion. Why aren't they there? How how does Psalm 83 answer this question?

                              A) It is intriguing that Israel's most observable opponents over the last 60 years since the restoration of the nation are not enlisted in the Ezekiel 38 nine member consortia of nations. This has puzzled the scholar alot recently. These are the very nations that border Israel through which the Russian invasion would be trespassing into to get into Israel to invade. So, why are they now listed? And, of course, what we are referring to are Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and what has evolved out of those entities are Hezbollah, Hamas, Palestinians, and other terrorist entities could be included in that list. Three-thousand years ago, oddly enough, a prophecy that has not found its final fulfillment — Psalm 83 — issued by Asaph the Seer, enlist all of these specific populations that we are talking about. There are ten of them in total. In my book I have gone through and traced who they are because when Asaph wrote this prophecy he was speaking in vernacular of his time. He was talking about the Edomites and Philistians and Tyrians from Tyre. Who could he have been talking about? It turns out he appears to have been talking about the Palestinian refugees — the Hamas, the Hezbollah. He talks about Assyria which would encompass Syria and part of Northern Iraq. He talks about the Hagarines which Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum and myself subscribe to being Hagar the matriarch of Egypt. She mothered Ishmael for Abraham, so we look at them as the Egyptians. Ismaelites, we look at them as the Saudi Arabians. Thoughout the book I weave in these connections of who these people are through the research I have done. And they are absent from the Ezekiel 38 invasion. So, I was intrigued by Psalm 83 and, of course, the theme of the book is Psalm 83, and I talk about how the Psalm talks about these ten populations coming together with one consent in an attempt to destroy the nation of Israel, that "the name Israel would be remembered no more." So I look at that, as and most scholars agree, has not been fulfilled yet. So I look at that as a forthcoming event in light of the way we see the stage setting over in the Middle East presently. It answers the questions, "Why aren't those nations included in Ezekiel 38 and 39?" And then, I get into how God deals with that battle through the "exceedingly great army" of Ezekiel 37:10, which I believe the Israeli Defense Forces will fulfill that prophecy. So they are not listed in Ezekiel 38 and 39, but they are listed in Psalm 83, and so I make a distinction between the two: the Israeli Defense Forces and the nations of Psalm 83 which I call the "inner circle."

                              Q) Psalm 83 is a war that is going to be fought before the war in Ezekiel 38 and 39? And, it will be a war in which Israel will defeat all of these Arab nations that have a common border with it?

                              A) Yes. Israel will expand into that territory, and therefore that is the reason they are not mentioned in the Russian invasion. This is my hypotheses. That solves the problem, too, of Israel having peace, and it also solves the problem of Israel moving into the center of the land, "midst of the land." It also solves the problem of them being exceedingly wealthy because they will be able to exploit their resources. I believe that it will be a safer Israel. More alilyah will come forward. More Jews will come into Israel. They will exploit the resources and expand the territory. And they will become that ripe carrot on the string that Russian and Iran will lick their chops to come after for that exceedingly great plunder.

                              Q) It never says in the Psalm who wins this war, so how do you know the Israelis win this war?

                              A) Well, there are several reasons for that. The very basic starting one theologically is that God promised Abraham he would have descendants forever and those would be the Jewish people. What we are talking about is probably nothing less or nothing short of a genocidal attempt against the Jewish people by the Arab Nations that we talked about — those ten populations. God is a promise keeper, and He will not allow the Jewish people to be destroyed. Hitler was unsuccessful and, of course, there was a litany of attempts. In fact, in Amos he says, I will put you in that land and you will never be rooted up again. If God keeps his promise to Israel, which we know he will, then the Jews will win. What connected this for me is Ezekiel 37:10. Many people, Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum and myself included, believe that Ezekiel was transported in Ezekiel 37 some 2,600 years ago into the 1940's where he saw the vision of the Valley of Dry Bones. And this represented the Jewish people in the Diaspora in a devastating grave/holocaust condition. Then God even asks Ezekiel "can these bones live?" Ezekiel says, "God you know." What a profound question that turns out to be because if they don't survive the very thing we are talking about God will have broken His promise to Abraham.

                              http://www.lamblion.com/files/public...2psalm%2083%22
                              sigpic
                              Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                              John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                              Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


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                              • I agree with this assessment of Psalm 83, Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39

                                Steve 53- I must have posted immediately before you. I agree with this scenario, as it has "bugged" me for years that Ezekiel 38-39 does not fit current events as they are NOW unfolding in the Middle East. Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 fit the current situation perfectly, and going back and re-reading Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc..., from beginning to end, has confirmed this view.

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