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Psalm 83 War & Fall of Damascus

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  • Could the Ezekiel 38 war happen after the peace agreement is signed? So after the 7 year tribulation begins when Isreal believes they're in a time of peace?

    This makes me want to study it some more!

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    • Great question, accepted, and one that Bible scholars are not in agreement. Earlier this week, I was reading about this in the book, "The End Times in Chronological Order" by Dr Ron Rhodes.

      He gives two possible interpretations to Ezekiel 38:8-11. One, which is held by Joel Rosenberg and Arnold Fruchtenbaum, is that Israel is already in a state of relative security. This is based on a number of factors, such as the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, the death of Yasser Arafat, and Israel's strong military, to name a few. Therefore, Rosenberg thinks that present conditions in Israel fulfill the spirit of Ezekiel's prophecy, and that Israel has security due to confidence in their own strength.

      The other view is that since 1948, Israel has been threatened by its Arab neighbors and has been in constant conflict. They think Israel will be in true security only when the antichrist signs the peace agreement with Israel, therefore Ezekiel 38 can't take place until after the rapture and signing of the peace treaty. Dr. Rhodes and Tom Ice both hold this view.

      Indeed, the coalition is lining up, but whether the Ezekiel war happens before or after the rapture, only God knows.
      Luke 12:27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

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      • The nations adjacent to Israel are conspicuously absent in the Ezekiel 38-39 war,
        but clearly evident in the conflict outlined in Psalm 83. Which leads to the
        conjecture that "winning" the Psalm 83 war will "set the stage" for the
        sense of peace and security of Israel, alluded to in Ezekiel 38.

        Comment


        • I too am very interested in this timing. I would like to see us "throw everything we have" at trying to understand the timing in detail.
          "Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God..."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lilies of the field View Post
            Great question, accepted, and one that Bible scholars are not in agreement. Earlier this week, I was reading about this in the book, "The End Times in Chronological Order" by Dr Ron Rhodes.

            He gives two possible interpretations to Ezekiel 38:8-11. One, which is held by Joel Rosenberg and Arnold Fruchtenbaum, is that Israel is already in a state of relative security. This is based on a number of factors, such as the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, the death of Yasser Arafat, and Israel's strong military, to name a few. Therefore, Rosenberg thinks that present conditions in Israel fulfill the spirit of Ezekiel's prophecy, and that Israel has security due to confidence in their own strength.

            The other view is that since 1948, Israel has been threatened by its Arab neighbors and has been in constant conflict. They think Israel will be in true security only when the antichrist signs the peace agreement with Israel, therefore Ezekiel 38 can't take place until after the rapture and signing of the peace treaty. Dr. Rhodes and Tom Ice both hold this view.

            Indeed, the coalition is lining up, but whether the Ezekiel war happens before or after the rapture, only God knows.
            I need to correct some info on my previous post, above. Dr. Rhodes and Tom Ice hold to the first interpretation, along with Rosenberg and Fruchtenbaum, not the second one. However, Rhodes thinks the Ezekiel war starts after the rapture, but before the peace treaty/start of the tribulation.
            Luke 12:27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilies of the field View Post
              I need to correct some info on my previous post, above. Dr. Rhodes and Tom Ice hold to the first interpretation, along with Rosenberg and Fruchtenbaum, not the second one. However, Rhodes thinks the Ezekiel war starts after the rapture, but before the peace treaty/start of the tribulation.

              I am so interested in what each of you have said. Because it seems like all the players are lining up exactly where they should be for this war to happen, and considering the fluidity of the Middle East, it's hard for me to imagine that this would all continue to be in place even a year from now!

              Comment


              • I believe the most fitting explanation in regards to the verse would be that it is after the peace agreement is signed. However I believe that it will be literally very VERY shortly after it is confirmed since we know that Israel will then burn the weapons for ...drumroll please... 7 years.

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                • Ez 38

                  Our eyes have certainly been on the Middle East with things looking like Ez 38 could be lining up. Since the Trump win it looks like a war may be avoided, or so we are led to believe. Ez 38:4 says "I will turn you around." This leads me to believe that Gog will be leaving the area and then God puts the hook in the jaw to bring them back. Why would they leave the area? Maybe a Trump presidency will relieve the urgency of a major standoff and Gog will move some troops and equipment out of the area. What will turn them back: Oil, power, influence, or the rapture? 1 Thes 5:3 talks about Peace and Safety and then sudden destruction. Gog pulling back would give a renewed sense of Peace in the ME and the whole world would be thinking we avoided WW3. What will trigger the sudden destruction? Is the sudden destruction connected to Ez 38?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Free in Christ View Post
                    Our eyes have certainly been on the Middle East with things looking like Ez 38 could be lining up. Since the Trump win it looks like a war may be avoided, or so we are led to believe. Ez 38:4 says "I will turn you around." This leads me to believe that Gog will be leaving the area and then God puts the hook in the jaw to bring them back. Why would they leave the area? Maybe a Trump presidency will relieve the urgency of a major standoff and Gog will move some troops and equipment out of the area. What will turn them back: Oil, power, influence, or the rapture? 1 Thes 5:3 talks about Peace and Safety and then sudden destruction. Gog pulling back would give a renewed sense of Peace in the ME and the whole world would be thinking we avoided WW3. What will trigger the sudden destruction? Is the sudden destruction connected to Ez 38?
                    In context, I don't believe we can tie 1 Thessalonians 5 to Ezekiel 38. The peace and safety, then sudden destruction is inside the 'Day of the Lord', which is in the tribulation period, IMHO. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
                    2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness.

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                    • My theory....

                      I think it is amazing to hear that trump knows Christ. Now only God knows his heart but hear me out...

                      I've alaways believed/assumed ez38 would take place after the rapture, and at the beginning of the trib(for many reasons). It seems even more likely now contrary to popular belief since trump has won the presidency. Imagine if trump does know Jesus, and I think it's safe to say pence knows Jesus as well, the rapture occurs and immediately Americas pres and vp are gone without a trace giving it to, as of right now, Mr neocon Paul Ryan. Things would absolutely spiral out of control quickly.

                      Let's say trump isn't a Christian, but TPTB(god forbid) assassinate pres trump, pence takes the helm and the rapture happens still leaving us with the same outcome, more or less. Most def interesting times we live in

                      Comment


                      • The Omegga Letter floated an interesting theory. I, presumably like most of you, expected a Clinton victory due to the prophetic march of globalization. But the writer argued that President Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the eternal capitol if Israel may finally lead to end of the "trampleing of the gentiles". Not that it will be ethnically cleansed but it will be fully in Jewish hands.
                        Now I am suffering a lot of pain right now and the Percocet is mitigating it. That's the blessing, the temporary dulling of my critical thinking skills is the other side of the coin though, so forgive me if my next thought isn't quite cogent or if I am missing something but...
                        Doesn't the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel basically fufill the time of the gentiles? If so, The Donald's victory should put us that much closer to the Rapture no?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mustard View Post
                          The Omegga Letter floated an interesting theory. I, presumably like most of you, expected a Clinton victory due to the prophetic march of globalization. But the writer argued that President Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the eternal capitol if Israel may finally lead to end of the "trampleing of the gentiles". Not that it will be ethnically cleansed but it will be fully in Jewish hands.
                          Now I am suffering a lot of pain right now and the Percocet is mitigating it. That's the blessing, the temporary dulling of my critical thinking skills is the other side of the coin though, so forgive me if my next thought isn't quite cogent or if I am missing something but...
                          Doesn't the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel basically fufill the time of the gentiles? If so, The Donald's victory should put us that much closer to the Rapture no?

                          http://www.omegaletter.com/articles/...ArticleID=8332

                          And here is an excerpt of that awesome article mustard refered too: Trump has made it clear that he would finally recognize Jerusalem as the sole, undivided capital of Israel, something no president has done since they recaptured the eastern half of it in 1967. Prophetically speaking, this is significant because Jesus said….and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:24)

                          I am becoming less and less convinced that this means there will be a complete absence of Gentiles in Jerusalem milling about, as this has never been the case even when they were their own kingdom. But were President Trump, the leader of the world’s greatest nation, to acknowledge Jerusalem as the capital of Israel after 49 years of Israeli ownership, this could signal the beginning of the end of Gentile dominion as the world begins to enter into Daniel’s 70th Week. I believe that this is the only reason why it hasn’t happened yet.

                          *Put in another way, if recognizing Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel were to work in Satan’s favor, it would have already happened 49 years ago. But it doesn’t and this is why Satan has been working so hard to prevent this now through eight different US administrations.

                          Prognosis: This could also mark the time when Christians let their guard down in the United States. This supports the Biblically-based understanding that the church becomes largely lethargic and lukewarm. Hypothetically speaking, if Trump surrounds himself with as much Christian leadership (advisors and cabinet members) as has we have been led to believe, a Rapture would decimate much of our Executive Branch forcing a national realignment, in conjunction with an economic downturn.

                          Comment


                          • Fascinating!! I had always assumed a Trump presidency would slow the prophetic clock. I suppose that's possible, but this thread also shows how God's plans can continue undeterred. Thanks for offering up this perspective.

                            Come quickly, Lord...even today!!!
                            Matt. 7:21
                            2 Cor. 5:21

                            Comment


                            • Anyone else...

                              Is there anyone else that would have a better understanding or maybe some of their own ideas and opinions on the situation? I find this topic to be interesting and very exciting...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Free in Christ View Post
                                Our eyes have certainly been on the Middle East with things
                                I want to make sure, right up front, that I thank you
                                for at least watching and asking questions.
                                None of us have a perfect grasp on this subject,
                                but each day, we seek to understand it better.

                                Originally posted by Kenny View Post
                                In context, I don't believe we can tie 1 Thessalonians 5 to Ezekiel 38. The peace and safety, then sudden destruction is inside the 'Day of the Lord', which is in the tribulation period, IMHO. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
                                No, I think you are right.

                                Originally posted by drewbydoo View Post
                                ...I've alaways believed/assumed ez38 would take place after the rapture, ...
                                That is my belief, as well. Psalm 83 (title of this thread)
                                is connected to Isaiah 17, and that may well happen before
                                the Rapture. The fact is, though, we won't know for certain,
                                until after it happens.

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