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  • #16
    It is all about choices.Where do you choose to spend your eternity?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sandee View Post
      A funny story: I was wanting to bake halibut for my son, (who caught it) and needed 1 ingredient, lemon pepper. But no money for a trip to the store. That day I walked past the give-away table in our apartment building and someone put there the bottle of lemon pepper I wanted.

      I have had this experience repeated with bread, other food items, calendars, and a step stool (which came up to my door, out of the clear blue, right whan I needed it and no sooner, carried by a neighbor), and it always facinates me how those items appear on that table when they are needed, and not a moment too soon.
      "I don't get it. Every time I set my stuff down near apartment #5 for a moment, it disappears!" ---
      "We have no defenses against space junk, people!" - Take me away!

      *Ask me about my testimony!*

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      • #18
        I think both...........faith in God to take care of us, first. But, there is nothing wrong with preparing, either, to a point. God certainly had Noah prepare ahead for the flood........ he took two of each animal aboard, so he must have taken food for them, too. And, for the humans on board. He told Noah how to build the ark so it would float. Let's face it, none had ever been built before that. I mean that was one hundred years of prepartion!!!

        I have supplies to feed dh and I for quite a while, should anything happen. Sharing it with family will shorten the time frame, and feeding neighbors will shorten it again. But, I stocked up to do any or all of the above. I rotate it out..........and, should there be a world catatrophe, an earthquake of any size (which we are prone to here in So Cal) or shortage of cash....we're set for a little while anyway. Not a bad thing at all..........

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        • #19
          jlutz, thank you for this thread. It's a welcome change from some of the endless survivalist-tinged discussions seen here in the past.

          For those who defend planning for disasters, having some provisions on hand in case of emergencies is always prudent. Several years ago I was very glad I had firewood, coffee, canned soup, and a battery-op radio on hand during a nasty storm & flooding that lasted 3 days.

          But I think the OP was making reference to Christians who are secretly worried a government breakdown will happen before the rapture. Others suspect they will have to go through the Tribulation and believe they can survive with careful planning.

          They may not admit it but when believers talk about stocking up on water purification pills, exotic camping gear, and food that will last for years it's a major hint they aren't relying on God.

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          • #20
            Trusting in God and God gives direction

            I believe it's both, to have faith in God is certainly leaning on Him who gives us the helper, well to me it makes sense, depending on your situation, on where you live, like us here in the northern country, we stock up in case we can't make it to town, or just being ready for bad weather, snowed in for days or what have ya. We products of many who went thru the dirty 30's, years ago, where one just did everything they could to save and make it thru tough times, Well I think we are in tuff times, many are out of work, losing homes and such, if God gives you the idea to put up food, firewood, or making improvements to your homes to be warmer and less energy users, who of us can say God isn't directing another to do such things, maybe you are to prepare for others who are yet to come?
            For myself and mom here, we were given a real nice home for a such a price that to me, only God could have done for us, it's not a normal thing, yet we are in a real struggle with a cousin who is trying to take us down and hurt us, but I'm still planning on finishing our basement with another living quarters as I believe it's what God has put on my heart and I've been blessed in aquiring things I need to finish the project, it's taking me a while, because of lack of an income, but we are getting by, we put up a lot of veggies in the freezer and canned a lot also, just because we are in a bit of need, I could grow the veggies to help us make it thru the winter months here. Ya know, some are hoarding, putting up bomb shelters and stock piling food, I'm not sure that's really trusting in God, yet, how do we know, that when the rapture comes, that other might be directed by God to find those places, for a bit of safety and maybe God's word will be present as well, for those who will come to the LORD during the tribulation...God is wonderful and mysterious, HE's beyond our understanding, so keeping faith in God and listening to what God may place in your heart and mind, but it should follow God's ways of teaching, not placing our treasures here on earth, but maybe be prepared for again, a situation or maybe future left behind child who will cherish God moving them to a place of need or so...

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            • #21
              Well, I look at the parable of the 10 virgins.

              5 had prepared, and 5 didn't. The ones who prepared got in.

              I think that can also apply to some matters here on earth.

              For example, we are self employed. Our sales tax is due every 3 months. Why are we saving up for that sales tax? That could go into Bibles!

              Well, we have to assume that we will be here in 3 months. If we don't pay we will lose our business and suffer legal consequences.

              Our mortgage and other bills are due every month, and we're going to keep paying them.

              Same with property taxes - due in about 6 weeks. I could spend it all on cows for people in Africa, or I could save it up and assume we will need to pay it.

              I believe we have to balance prudence with preparation.

              Example: I have an expensive home repair that needs to be done. However, God has allowed us to work around it for the time being. I am trusting that either God will 1. provide means to pay for the repair when necessary 2. Allow us to keep working around the need or 3. Rapture us before we need to do it.

              I figure God has my back, so I don't worry about it. But in the meantime I am certain God wants me to take care of my responsibilities.

              We are all called to do different things. Right now, finances at home are pretty awful. I have prayed on getting another job; and I always get a NO. Doesn't seem logical, but it just makes us lean that more on Him.

              If I'm taking care of my current needs, and God raptures me tonight, great. If not, at least my home won't get foreclosed and we'll still have the business.

              " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

              Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

              Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

              Matthew 22:9 NIV
              'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


              I'm praying for you daily!
              I get my Bibles here

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by BarbT View Post
                jlutz, thank you for this thread. It's a welcome change from some of the endless survivalist-tinged discussions seen here in the past.

                For those who defend planning for disasters, having some provisions on hand in case of emergencies is always prudent. Several years ago I was very glad I had firewood, coffee, canned soup, and a battery-op radio on hand during a nasty storm & flooding that lasted 3 days.

                But I think the OP was making reference to Christians who are secretly worried a government breakdown will happen before the rapture. Others suspect they will have to go through the Tribulation and believe they can survive with careful planning.

                They may not admit it but when believers talk about stocking up on water purification pills, exotic camping gear, and food that will last for years it's a major hint they aren't relying on God.

                Yes, this is exactly what I was getting at. Although if you take this to it's logical conclusion, why shouldn't we trust God to provide in the smaller things as well? Is He incapable or otherwise occupied when we go through hurricanes or earthquakes??
                For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Acts5:41 View Post
                  Well, I look at the parable of the 10 virgins.

                  5 had prepared, and 5 didn't. The ones who prepared got in.

                  I think that can also apply to some matters here on earth.

                  For example, we are self employed. Our sales tax is due every 3 months. Why are we saving up for that sales tax? That could go into Bibles!

                  Well, we have to assume that we will be here in 3 months. If we don't pay we will lose our business and suffer legal consequences.

                  Our mortgage and other bills are due every month, and we're going to keep paying them.

                  Same with property taxes - due in about 6 weeks. I could spend it all on cows for people in Africa, or I could save it up and assume we will need to pay it.

                  I believe we have to balance prudence with preparation.

                  Example: I have an expensive home repair that needs to be done. However, God has allowed us to work around it for the time being. I am trusting that either God will 1. provide means to pay for the repair when necessary 2. Allow us to keep working around the need or 3. Rapture us before we need to do it.

                  I figure God has my back, so I don't worry about it. But in the meantime I am certain God wants me to take care of my responsibilities.

                  We are all called to do different things. Right now, finances at home are pretty awful. I have prayed on getting another job; and I always get a NO. Doesn't seem logical, but it just makes us lean that more on Him.

                  If I'm taking care of my current needs, and God raptures me tonight, great. If not, at least my home won't get foreclosed and we'll still have the business.


                  I think you may have missed the point. I wasn't talking about paying bills, although we should trust God for that too. I was talking abut hoarding supplies and the mentality that we should store up treasures here on earth.

                  Also the parable of 10 virgins is about the second coming, and being ready for it. It has nothing to do with preparing or stocking up for bad things that may happen in the future.
                  For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    HI Jlutz I can kinda get what Act5:41 is trying to say, the parable might be as you say and I'll take it true, but doesn't God tell us to keep on with our daily lives, not to worry about things of the world and such, that calling upon Him and He will supply all our needs. Ok that's good right? Some today are preparing for their reasons a possible doomsday situation, others know what God's word teaches us of prophecy today, not to worry, but go about our business as normal for believers. Half of the virgins readied them selves for the LORD, Half didn't, they relied on their own understanding and failed, basically, right, well I hope I got this right...
                    Act5:41 I thought was giving examples according to his situation in life, whether it finanaces to accomplish our goals or our needs, but also what God puts in our hearts according to His Will. I think it a wonderful act of God's kindness to think of those who are going to be left behind, to bring them possible to homes and places of rations, safety or possibly an opportunity to bring those who are knowing of their situation, being left behind and bring the Word to them thru another situation...

                    Ok,my 2 cents worth, minus 1 cent, ha...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sheprdboi View Post
                      HI Jlutz I can kinda get what Act5:41 is trying to say, the parable might be as you say and I'll take it true, but doesn't God tell us to keep on with our daily lives, not to worry about things of the world and such, that calling upon Him and He will supply all our needs. Ok that's good right? Some today are preparing for their reasons a possible doomsday situation, others know what God's word teaches us of prophecy today, not to worry, but go about our business as normal for believers. Half of the virgins readied them selves for the LORD, Half didn't, they relied on their own understanding and failed, basically, right, well I hope I got this right...
                      Act5:41 I thought was giving examples according to his situation in life, whether it finanaces to accomplish our goals or our needs, but also what God puts in our hearts according to His Will. I think it a wonderful act of God's kindness to think of those who are going to be left behind, to bring them possible to homes and places of rations, safety or possibly an opportunity to bring those who are knowing of their situation, being left behind and bring the Word to them thru another situation...

                      Ok,my 2 cents worth, minus 1 cent, ha...

                      I think were both on the same page.....I think
                      For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        If you read the question again in the OP, you'll see the way not to be. The problem becomes worse when "preppers" try to warn everyone to prep for survival. I think Jack was correct in strongly speaking against the questioner. Of course different ways of life lead to different ways of handling money and provisions. The Lord did go to extremes with the disciples to show us we rely on the Lord, to the extreme. He led Israel with nothing, only to provide something, so they would know He provides everything. And quite frankly, that is the way it truly is, the Lord sustains this whole creation. He fed 5000 and 4000 to show He is Lord of awesome.
                        Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

                        Joel 3:2

                        I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Glad you brought this up, Jlutz. I just this morning starting praying and seeking His will on whether to stock up on some food items. I have never had a desire to store goods for those left behind because of all the disasters and destruction that will be coming. I dont know that my items would survive. I dont have an answer yet so I will continue to pray. I think it is definitely a 'sign of the times' that I am even thinking along these lines.
                          John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world


                          Revelation22:17 Both the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!"

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                          • #28
                            I don't think it is appropriate, ever, to engage in name calling: "hoarders".

                            How will the tribulation saints EAT? Huh? After the Mark?

                            They're going to be at the "hoarder" houses, stocking up, and PRAISING GOD SOMEONE THOUGHT OF THEM AHEAD OF TIME.

                            Frankly, my level of supplies, and what I do with MY pay, are between me and God. I don't have to defend myself to anyone.

                            For those who say "Trust in God entirely" I am reminded of Katrina - I am sure many trusted in God, and they ended up going hungry and thirsty for days, because they failed to plan in a logical manner.

                            And yes, Barb says "Plan for disaster" - but how much is planning for disaster, and how much is "hoarding" - that is going to depend on the person you ask.

                            The government, ideally, would like EVERYONE to have a 2 week supply of food and water. But that's not all you need.

                            Take my medication. I am, literally, about 48 hours from complete insanity at any given moment.

                            I could "trust God" and only have a few days of medication at a time, or I could plan, prudently, ahead of time. I could ask Doc for a 3 month refill, instead of a 1-month (it is a lot cheaper, too), and fill the prescription in advance of need. I do that.

                            A year or two back, they had major shortages of my mood stabilizer. I had to wait over 2 weeks, every time I got a refill, for over a year. Everytime I went in they said they could give me a few days, if I needed (and charge $$), but the fact of the matter is they were out.

                            If I hadn't planned ahead, I would have ended up in the mental hospital.

                            " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

                            Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

                            Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

                            Matthew 22:9 NIV
                            'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


                            I'm praying for you daily!
                            I get my Bibles here

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I can understand about being cautioned to have prepardness. Each day we try not to spend more than we need to try and keep some money in the bank for tomorrow; even though I believe that our money in the bank will probably disappear through some sort of corrupt and wicked act.

                              However there is only so much you can do and we don't know what tomorrow may bring or what we may have to prepare for as we don't know the future. Who thought in Japan they would one day have a Tsunami that would leave them with the situation they have to face today? How do you prepare for the unknown?

                              I woke up to a totally different day than I planned to have and there are now issues that have cropped up I didn't forsee. Not big things we cannot sort out but certainly not anticipated and our plans have now changed. God has given us the skills in the past to work through some of these issues we now face and some of it we have to give to the Lord that He will enable us to endure if worse case scenario happens.


                              We can only have FAITH in Christ and lean on the Lord for the ability to cope with all of our tomorrows.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Acts5:41 View Post
                                I don't think it is appropriate, ever, to engage in name calling: "hoarders".

                                How will the tribulation saints EAT? Huh? After the Mark?

                                They're going to be at the "hoarder" houses, stocking up, and PRAISING GOD SOMEONE THOUGHT OF THEM AHEAD OF TIME.

                                Frankly, my level of supplies, and what I do with MY pay, are between me and God. I don't have to defend myself to anyone.

                                For those who say "Trust in God entirely" I am reminded of Katrina - I am sure many trusted in God, and they ended up going hungry and thirsty for days, because they failed to plan in a logical manner.

                                And yes, Barb says "Plan for disaster" - but how much is planning for disaster, and how much is "hoarding" - that is going to depend on the person you ask.

                                The government, ideally, would like EVERYONE to have a 2 week supply of food and water. But that's not all you need.

                                Take my medication. I am, literally, about 48 hours from complete insanity at any given moment.

                                I could "trust God" and only have a few days of medication at a time, or I could plan, prudently, ahead of time. I could ask Doc for a 3 month refill, instead of a 1-month (it is a lot cheaper, too), and fill the prescription in advance of need. I do that.

                                A year or two back, they had major shortages of my mood stabilizer. I had to wait over 2 weeks, every time I got a refill, for over a year. Everytime I went in they said they could give me a few days, if I needed (and charge $$), but the fact of the matter is they were out.

                                If I hadn't planned ahead, I would have ended up in the mental hospital.


                                Do you really believe the tribe saints will be eating your stored food?? Think about it for a minute. After the first 4 judgments alone a quarter of the population is dead, not only that, think about the unbelievable destruction to homes and other buildings. Even if the food survives, there is a huge possibility that nobody could ever get to it, let alone find it. In addition to that, your talking about people eating your food after the mark, it would be virtually impossible for it to have survived that long, that's more than half way through. But even so, the OP isn't dealing with storing supplies for people after the rapture, which I believe is pointless, it's dealing with what we do with our resources now. You should do what God tells you to do, as should we all. Storing up treasure in heaven is what we all should do, storing treasure on earth is what the world teaches us to do.


                                Calling someone a hoarder isn't name calling. It's describing an action or lifestyle. It's not a derogatory term.
                                For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

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