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  • Originally posted by RandallB View Post
    The AC is revealed by being the person who confirms the covenant at the beginnning of the 7 year tribulation.
    The AC is also seen again in prophecy at the 3.5 year mark. This is not where he first appears. He is alive today and is walking around. He is just not revealed.

    to me Revelation doesnt say that because
    I think the first seal isnt AC; its Jesus beginning with Judgement.

    Originally posted by RandallB View Post
    amillennial referrs to the belief that there is no actual physical reign of Christ in His millennial kingdom. It usually is accompanied by an allegorical belief that we are currently in the "thousand year reign" and that the church is making the world better and better. Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish a permanent physical reign.
    thats nonsense. Jesus will reign as King for 1000 years physically.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by EuroJoe View Post
      to me Revelation doesnt say that because
      I think the first seal isnt AC; its Jesus beginning with Judgement.
      I am going to let you read some of the great material on this site for your answers to this.
      Remember: It's not what we think that is important. It's what is written in scripture.

      And I would use a KJV or NKJ version of the bible for the research.
      http://www.blueletterbible.org/ Look in the commentary sections under Chuck Smith's work.
      Others are great also. Chuck seems to talk best to me.

      for sites www.buzzardhut.net and www.gracethrufaith.com are great.


      Originally posted by EuroJoe View Post
      thats nonsense. Jesus will reign as King for 1000 years physically.
      EuroJoe: We agree totally on this.

      Comment


      • What I still need help with is, where in scripture does it show the gap between the 69th and 70th week?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jonshaff View Post
          What I still need help with is, where in scripture does it show the gap between the 69th and 70th week?

          Dan 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, [That] from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, [There shall be] seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street [fn] shall be built again, and the wall, [fn] Even in troublesome times.

          Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it [shall be] with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

          Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."
          Dan 9:26 describes the end of first 7+62 weeks, Messiah is cut off which meant executed for a capital crime.

          Dan 9:27 describes beginning of the final 70th week, -- confirm a covenant.

          The interval of the church is in between those two verses. Remember Jesus paused His sermon at a comma that indicted the same gap. This gap was a complete mystery to the OT.

          Prophecy is arranged such that it would come true whether Israel accepted the Kingdom when Jesus presented it to them at His 1st coming or at His 2nd.

          Not sure if this answers your question.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by EuroJoe View Post
            to me Revelation doesnt say that because
            I think the first seal isnt AC; its Jesus beginning with Judgement.
            The first seal is Jesus releasing the first white horse.
            Originally posted by EuroJoe View Post
            AC is not on the stage until Rev 13;
            thats in the middle of the 7 years.
            The AC rises up right after the rapture in Revelation 6:1-2[/QUOTE]

            http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/ETT/...vChartVert.htm

            Originally posted by EuroJoe View Post
            How will he then confirm a covenant at the start of the 7 years ?
            The AC will confirm at the beginning of his reign in the first year of 7.
            Originally posted by EuroJoe View Post
            its a catholic translation we have in any school here.
            what is amillennial ?
            Avoid catholic translations, they alter the text to support their religion.
            Amill means there is not really a millennium reign of Jesus; Catholics, Liturgists, and many other groups teach and believe it.

            http://www.gotquestions.org/amillennialism.html

            Originally posted by jonshaff View Post
            What I still need help with is, where in scripture does it show the gap between the 69th and 70th week?
            We are in the gap, the mystery of the church, from the ascension of Jesus, the upper room to the rapture.

            Originally posted by kissimmeeman View Post
            Well Waiting since it seems you know exactly what was meant by the temple explain why the temple must be built? Because the AC needs to stand in something? Will he not be in the hearts/minds of many of God's temples? As Paul said, "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

            17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

            19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (1 Corinthians 6:19)

            16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Corinthians 6:16)

            As I've read and many others have read the new covenant is explained to us as Jesus, The Word, being written on our hearts and that we are the Temple of G-d not some building. As was said, For what building could house G-d? You can try and demean what someone else believes but believe me your interpretation is not always the right one. I'll believe that I'm the Temple of G-d and not some building and you can believe we will need some new building for it. Just because a temple is mentioned in the NT or later in the Bible doesn't mean that one needs to be built in fact most of the verse don't mention re-building one but people construe that because it speaks of a temple one must have to be built. Jesus clearly states that we believers in Christ are the Temple of God.

            P.S. What is it about this board that makes people think to write a retort to someone and make it sound as if you are talking down to someone with your GREAT expertise? Are you really that certain in everything you say that you need to talk down to others and their thoughts?
            2 different Temples;
            Originally posted by EuroJoe View Post
            what I mentioned was in the Luther Version
            and in the Unity translation.

            Daniel 9:27 (The Message translation)
            Then for one seven,
            he will forge many and strong alliances,
            but halfway through the seven he will banish worship and prayers.


            theres also a difference between Luther1912 and Luther1984
            Forget Luther and Liturgy nonsense, get yourself a good KJV/NKJV



            Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
            Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
            Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

            Comment


            • Thank you guys, much obliged

              Comment


              • What I still need help with is, where in scripture does it show the gap between the 69th and 70th week?
                Besides Luke 4:17-21 which was already mentioned, where Jesus quotes from Isaiah 61:1-2, the Bible does refer to the "gap" in other places.

                Hosea 3:4 For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar and without ephod or household idols.
                Hosea 3:5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

                Israel would not have a king again until the Messiah's kingdom, but it was unknown how long that might be, just "for many days."

                Luke 19:11 While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
                Luke 19:12 So He said, "A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return.
                Luke 19:13 "And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, 'Do business with this until I come back.'
                Luke 19:14 "But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.'
                Luke 19:15 "When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done.

                Jesus gives a parable about the kingdom and when it will appear. A nobleman (Christ) went to a distant country (earth) to receive a kingdom; He doesn't receive it at that time--He would return. He gives instructions while in this distant country and tells the people He will come back--He doesn't say how long that will be. Some time passes, and no one knows for sure just when He is coming back. But He eventually returns and receives His kingdom, at which time His faithful servants are rewarded with responsibilities in the kingdom.

                John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

                Jesus doesn't say how much time will pass between His leaving and the rapture, just that He is leaving, but that He will come again and take us away with Him. But after the resurrection, the disciples ask, isn't it time for the kingdom yet?

                Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
                Acts 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

                Jesus gives them no time clues as to when the kingdom will appear, then ascends back to heaven, for an indefinite period of time. God gave definite time periods when dealing with Israel, but not regarding the church age: “for many days.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
                  Forget Luther and Liturgy nonsense, get yourself a good KJV/NKJV


                  and what, if the mentioned translation is more accurate than yours ?

                  we need some more witnesses here.

                  Comment


                  • kissimmeeman You are the one doing what you have accused me of.

                    Originally posted by kissimmeeman View Post
                    Well Waiting since it seems you know exactly what was meant by the temple explain why the temple must be built? Because the AC needs to stand in something? Will he not be in the hearts/minds of many of God's temples? As Paul said, "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

                    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

                    19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (1 Corinthians 6:19)

                    16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Corinthians 6:16)

                    As I've read and many others have read the new covenant is explained to us as Jesus, The Word, being written on our hearts and that we are the Temple of G-d not some building. As was said, For what building could house G-d? You can try and demean what someone else believes but believe me your interpretation is not always the right one. I'll believe that I'm the Temple of G-d and not some building and you can believe we will need some new building for it. Just because a temple is mentioned in the NT or later in the Bible doesn't mean that one needs to be built in fact most of the verse don't mention re-building one but people construe that because it speaks of a temple one must have to be built. Jesus clearly states that we believers in Christ are the Temple of God.

                    P.S. What is it about this board that makes people think to write a retort to someone and make it sound as if you are talking down to someone with your GREAT expertise? Are you really that certain in everything you say that you need to talk down to others and their thoughts?
                    I am well aware of the Scriptures you mention and their full meanings and I was merely correcting the man's error about the Scripture. God has called us to do that, and "with love"

                    And I can assure you that what I said is supported by 99% of those here at Rapture Ready.

                    This is one of the reasons I wish the Rapture would happen, is because of what seems to be hatred spued from a fellow Brother or Sister in Jesus Christ on their own kin. I make no claim to have "great expertise". I would ask you to go read some of the Doctrinal Bible Discussions iSong6:3, Buzzardhut, and some of the other great moderators have posted here and other writers under: Balanced Bible Doctrine", "Bible Study Questions", and the main web page: http://www.raptureready.com/ reading what "Featured End Time Writers", "General Topics", and "Understanding Bible Based Truth" . These people are truly blessed in their knowledge of the Truth and the Bible.

                    I only corrected the person because I don't care for misinformation being posted that may cause others to think we on RR believe that way. To not acknowledge an error of the Truth, is almost the same as acceptence of it as being Truth.

                    I am sorry to you feel so much anger and maybe even toward me, but none the less I love you and everybody else. I have 2 Autistic sons who I love very much, but even my son's Autism is no excuse for me not to correct an error in him if what he says is wrong. God Bless You.
                    Last edited by iSong6:3; February 20th, 2012, 07:20 PM. Reason: paragraphed :)
                    John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.Matthew 5:23-24 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jan51 View Post
                      Besides Luke 4:17-21 which was already mentioned, where Jesus quotes from Isaiah 61:1-2, the Bible does refer to the "gap" in other places.

                      Hosea 3:4 For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar and without ephod or household idols.
                      Hosea 3:5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

                      Israel would not have a king again until the Messiah's kingdom, but it was unknown how long that might be, just "for many days."

                      Luke 19:11 While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
                      Luke 19:12 So He said, "A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return.
                      Luke 19:13 "And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, 'Do business with this until I come back.'
                      Luke 19:14 "But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.'
                      Luke 19:15 "When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done.

                      Jesus gives a parable about the kingdom and when it will appear. A nobleman (Christ) went to a distant country (earth) to receive a kingdom; He doesn't receive it at that time--He would return. He gives instructions while in this distant country and tells the people He will come back--He doesn't say how long that will be. Some time passes, and no one knows for sure just when He is coming back. But He eventually returns and receives His kingdom, at which time His faithful servants are rewarded with responsibilities in the kingdom.

                      John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

                      Jesus doesn't say how much time will pass between His leaving and the rapture, just that He is leaving, but that He will come again and take us away with Him. But after the resurrection, the disciples ask, isn't it time for the kingdom yet?

                      Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
                      Acts 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

                      Jesus gives them no time clues as to when the kingdom will appear, then ascends back to heaven, for an indefinite period of time. God gave definite time periods when dealing with Israel, but not regarding the church age: “for many days.”



                      Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                      Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                      Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jan51 View Post
                        Besides Luke 4:17-21 which was already mentioned, where Jesus quotes from Isaiah 61:1-2, the Bible does refer to the "gap" in other places.

                        Hosea 3:4 For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar and without ephod or household idols.
                        Hosea 3:5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

                        Israel would not have a king again until the Messiah's kingdom, but it was unknown how long that might be, just "for many days."

                        Luke 19:11 While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
                        Luke 19:12 So He said, "A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return.
                        Luke 19:13 "And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, 'Do business with this until I come back.'
                        Luke 19:14 "But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.'
                        Luke 19:15 "When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done.

                        Jesus gives a parable about the kingdom and when it will appear. A nobleman (Christ) went to a distant country (earth) to receive a kingdom; He doesn't receive it at that time--He would return. He gives instructions while in this distant country and tells the people He will come back--He doesn't say how long that will be. Some time passes, and no one knows for sure just when He is coming back. But He eventually returns and receives His kingdom, at which time His faithful servants are rewarded with responsibilities in the kingdom.

                        John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

                        Jesus doesn't say how much time will pass between His leaving and the rapture, just that He is leaving, but that He will come again and take us away with Him. But after the resurrection, the disciples ask, isn't it time for the kingdom yet?

                        Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
                        Acts 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

                        Jesus gives them no time clues as to when the kingdom will appear, then ascends back to heaven, for an indefinite period of time. God gave definite time periods when dealing with Israel, but not regarding the church age: “for many days.”
                        Thank you so much!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by EuroJoe View Post
                          and what, if the mentioned translation is more accurate than yours ?

                          we need some more witnesses here.

                          Not a Problem


                          King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
                          And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


                          New International Version (©1984)
                          He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

                          New Living Translation (©2007)
                          The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."

                          English Standard Version (©2001)
                          And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

                          New American Standard Bible (©1995)
                          "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

                          King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
                          And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

                          GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
                          He will confirm his promise with many for one set of seven time periods. In the middle of the seven time periods, he will stop the sacrifices and food offerings. This will happen along with disgusting things that cause destruction until [those time periods] come to an end. It has been determined that this will happen to those who destroy [the city]."


                          American King James Version
                          And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured on the desolate.

                          American Standard Version
                          And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations'shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

                          Douay-Rheims Bible
                          And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and ihe desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.

                          Darby Bible Translation
                          And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and because of the protection of abominations there shall be a desolator, even until that the consumption and what is determined shall be poured out upon the desolate.

                          English Revised Version
                          And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and for the half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the consummation, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolator.

                          Webster's Bible Translation
                          And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

                          World English Bible
                          He shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the wing of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate; and even to the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out on the desolate.

                          Young's Literal Translation
                          And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

                          Comment


                          • Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Praying View Post
                              Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Praying View Post
                                Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!
                                I second that!
                                Even though sometimes it seems overwhelming and takes time to let it go through the mind and much prayer.

                                But the Bible comes to life now and I can see the WHOLE picture infront of me, not just one verse from here and another from there.
                                And not even that, it helps to live free of all the baggage of Mistery Babylon system they put into our heads in kindergatens, school, universities, psychologies, you must-must-must in order to be-be-be.

                                Marantha!

                                Comment

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