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Could someone explain something to me regarding the rapture?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by hannah14 View Post
    The only other place I have read "I come as a thief" is regarding the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 5:2. Is this also the rapture that is being referred to... after the seven plagues and seven bowls?
    1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.


    1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


    1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


    1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


    1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    Bold and Italic added.
    The day of the LORD does come as a thief - but not for the believers - for the unbelievers. And there will be believers on earth at the time of armageddon - tribulation believers. Jesus is warning them to remain vigilant.

    Comment


    • #17
      There is no reason for your hope to be shaken.

      First, the Rapture is in chapter 4--lots of reasons that this is so, but ust check out the song of the Church, the Redeemed, the only group that can sing the song in Chapter 5---and how it lines up with Rev 1:6. On top of that, check out the 7 letters to the 7 churches and the promises for those who are overcomers, faithful, the watching, and how they match up to the elders in Ch 4-5: we are seated on thrones (royalty are seated on thrones---you are a joint heir by adoption in Christ to rule and reign), in white, with crowns (also indicating royalty---while these are stephanos crowns not diadems--Jesus wears the diadems in His return--ours are made of gold, and there are 5 different kinds of crowns that can be earned). We should be able to know who we are.

      Second, context. Look at where you are in scripture and what is happening and what has happened. You are at the tail end of wrath--the last bowl is what is poured out next! We are saved from wrath, so you can know without a doubt that this verse has nothing to do with the Church. That has to do with correct division of God's Word. In Revelation 1:19, you are given an outline of the book: write what was (Ch 1), what is (Ch 2-3) and what is to come (CH 4 forward). If you look at Ch4, it says "After these things " (that is kai meta tauta in Greek, which you will see a lot of kai or kai meta tauta throughout this to indicate the chronology of events), which helps us to see that this is already divided for us.

      This verse (16:15) is right before Armageddon. The sixth bowl judgement was poured out and the Euphrates is dried up so that the kings of the east and their armies can come through for Armegeddon and the demonic spirits have been sent out to the other kings and rest of the world also for the same purpose. Then we see this interjerection. Who is this directed at? Those who will be blessed. Who is blessed right now where you are in Scripture? Believers and I would say, based on what happens next, the remnant of Israel. They are ready and watching for the Lord to return. They probably have counted the days and would know how many they have left when this happens. The unbelieving/unrepentant would more than likely not know nor even care.

      In my Bible, they have referenced Matt 24:43 and Luke 12:39 and also Rev 3:3 and 11. Notice that when you look these up, Jesus says he will come as a thief for those who are not watching for Him. Those warnings are for the unbelieving--the believing if you continue reading in Luke are hoping to stand before the Lord, kept from this time altogether. Remember, the letter to Sardis in Rev 3, the warning is for those who are not remembering, not repenting and not watching because while they can be seen in the Church, they are not believing. The promises in the letters are for those who are believers; those who are not believing are issued warnings and consequences. There will be those who were Christians in name only in 5 of these 7 types of churches who will be left here and will go into the Tribulation because they do not heed the Lord's warnings. Some will become believers at that time and make it through the Tribulation without taking the mark, by the grace of God. They will be the ones repopulating the Gentile nations.

      Here He says He is coming as a thief, not will, but is. The one who gets the blessing when He comes is the one who is watching for Him and is ready with his garmets on him---I would say garments would more than likely not be literal for real clothes but more likely symbolic for maintaining the testimony of Christ because of the fact that we are given white garments of salvation in heaven. The shame and embarrassment for these folks at this point would be to not have the testimony of faith in Jesus Christ when He returns. It would also be shameful to have treated the Jews poorly--that would make that person a goat and sent into hell, since only believing faithful can enter into the Millennial Kingdom.

      This is off the top of my head. I am sure there is someone better to explain this than me and I probably missed something. I would start with context though, always, and looking at the details of what is said---pronouns used, who is being referred to when something is being said or promised, understanding what the promises are to the Church, looking at verb tense--is it past, present or future, is it a command, is it a conditional promise, etc, if it's a conditional promise, who is it made to (remember we are not Israel, and the believers at the end are also not the Church)

      Isn't God's Word so cool?!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SaintTexas View Post
        There is no reason for your hope to be shaken.

        First, the Rapture is in chapter 4--lots of reasons that this is so, but ust check out the song of the Church, the Redeemed, the only group that can sing the song in Chapter 5---and how it lines up with Rev 1:6. On top of that, check out the 7 letters to the 7 churches and the promises for those who are overcomers, faithful, the watching, and how they match up to the elders in Ch 4-5: we are seated on thrones (royalty are seated on thrones---you are a joint heir by adoption in Christ to rule and reign), in white, with crowns (also indicating royalty---while these are stephanos crowns not diadems--Jesus wears the diadems in His return--ours are made of gold, and there are 5 different kinds of crowns that can be earned). We should be able to know who we are.

        Second, context. Look at where you are in scripture and what is happening and what has happened. You are at the tail end of wrath--the last bowl is what is poured out next! We are saved from wrath, so you can know without a doubt that this verse has nothing to do with the Church. That has to do with correct division of God's Word. In Revelation 1:19, you are given an outline of the book: write what was (Ch 1), what is (Ch 2-3) and what is to come (CH 4 forward). If you look at Ch4, it says "After these things " (that is kai meta tauta in Greek, which you will see a lot of kai or kai meta tauta throughout this to indicate the chronology of events), which helps us to see that this is already divided for us.

        This verse (16:15) is right before Armageddon. The sixth bowl judgement was poured out and the Euphrates is dried up so that the kings of the east and their armies can come through for Armegeddon and the demonic spirits have been sent out to the other kings and rest of the world also for the same purpose. Then we see this interjerection. Who is this directed at? Those who will be blessed. Who is blessed right now where you are in Scripture? Believers and I would say, based on what happens next, the remnant of Israel. They are ready and watching for the Lord to return. They probably have counted the days and would know how many they have left when this happens. The unbelieving/unrepentant would more than likely not know nor even care.

        In my Bible, they have referenced Matt 24:43 and Luke 12:39 and also Rev 3:3 and 11. Notice that when you look these up, Jesus says he will come as a thief for those who are not watching for Him. Those warnings are for the unbelieving--the believing if you continue reading in Luke are hoping to stand before the Lord, kept from this time altogether. Remember, the letter to Sardis in Rev 3, the warning is for those who are not remembering, not repenting and not watching because while they can be seen in the Church, they are not believing. The promises in the letters are for those who are believers; those who are not believing are issued warnings and consequences. There will be those who were Christians in name only in 5 of these 7 types of churches who will be left here and will go into the Tribulation because they do not heed the Lord's warnings. Some will become believers at that time and make it through the Tribulation without taking the mark, by the grace of God. They will be the ones repopulating the Gentile nations.

        Here He says He is coming as a thief, not will, but is. The one who gets the blessing when He comes is the one who is watching for Him and is ready with his garmets on him---I would say garments would more than likely not be literal for real clothes but more likely symbolic for maintaining the testimony of Christ because of the fact that we are given white garments of salvation in heaven. The shame and embarrassment for these folks at this point would be to not have the testimony of faith in Jesus Christ when He returns. It would also be shameful to have treated the Jews poorly--that would make that person a goat and sent into hell, since only believing faithful can enter into the Millennial Kingdom.

        This is off the top of my head. I am sure there is someone better to explain this than me and I probably missed something. I would start with context though, always, and looking at the details of what is said---pronouns used, who is being referred to when something is being said or promised, understanding what the promises are to the Church, looking at verb tense--is it past, present or future, is it a command, is it a conditional promise, etc, if it's a conditional promise, who is it made to (remember we are not Israel, and the believers at the end are also not the Church)

        Isn't God's Word so cool?!
        Ooh, you did such a beautiful job laying that out with scripture! Thank you for that much needed encouragement!

        And ABSOLUTELY-- God's Word is SO AWESOME!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Jotham View Post
          SOrry you are saying that Enoch was taken away so he wouldn't experience the flood. By looking at the numbers though Enoch was taken before Noah was ever born.

          Noah father was Lamech and was 182 when Noah was born (Gen 5:28)
          Lamech's father was Methuselah who was 187 years old when we was born. (Gen 5:25)
          Methuselah's father was Enoch and was 65 years old when we was born. (Gen 5:21)
          Now Enoch was taken to heaven when he was 365 (Gen 5:23-24)

          Now or some math. 365 - 65 = 300
          300 - 187 = 113
          113 - 182 = -69
          Enoch was taken 69 years before Noah was even born not even counting the flood which was 600 years later. (Gen 7:6)

          So saying Enoch was taken away so he would not experience the flood is a poor example of being taken away so you would not go through a time of tribulation.
          It rained at Methuselah's death
          Google the story



          Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
          Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
          Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

          Comment


          • #20
            Interesting, Noah was taken out before the rain came or the flood came. He knew about it, the Lord told him to prepare and he did. The Ark was above the earth and separated from the flood and destruction taking place on the earth.
            There was no surprise to Noah that some form of destruction would come. Since the Lord told Noah to build an Ark, I think he figured it out.

            I see tremendous similarities between Noah and the Rapture of the church. In fact I believe the Lord uses that as an example to us to be encouraged. To prove that he does take care of his own, That he saves his own from this terrible time that is coming and is about to come. He has done it before and he will do it again. We, his people, undergo some issues prior to that, just as Noah did. But when the Tribulation actually starts we are no where to be found.

            Looking up at any moment. staying ready, Being an overcomer!!!!

            Praise the Lord!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by JesusIsLord View Post
              I dont believe Jesus EVER comes for the Church "as a thief", nor "as a thief in the night". Jesus Himself defines what a thief does:

              John 10:10


              That is why Paul says:

              1 Thessalonians 5:2


              Paul is talking about the Day of the Lord, not the Rapture. I dont believe scripture refers to the Rapture ANYWHERE in the bible as the Lord coming as a "thief in the night". That is why John records Jesus as saying this AFTER all but the last Bowl plague:

              Revelation 16:15


              Jesus is telling us here that He is Coming in His Second Coming like a "thief". And what does a thief come to do? "steal and kill and destroy".

              Dont let anyone or anything take away your Blessed Hope, the Pre-Tribulational Rapture!

              Hope this helps!

              God bless,
              - JIL
              I'm confused. I thought the rapture and the day of the Lord was the same thing? since rapture means harpazo in the greek for caught up or something like that.

              **ps** i'm still at work so forgive me if i'm off base

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ce7 View Post
                Interesting, Noah was taken out before the rain came or the flood came. He knew about it, the Lord told him to prepare and he did. The Ark was above the earth and separated from the flood and destruction taking place on the earth.
                There was no surprise to Noah that some form of destruction would come. Since the Lord told Noah to build an Ark, I think he figured it out.

                I see tremendous similarities between Noah and the Rapture of the church. In fact I believe the Lord uses that as an example to us to be encouraged. To prove that he does take care of his own, That he saves his own from this terrible time that is coming and is about to come. He has done it before and he will do it again. We, his people, undergo some issues prior to that, just as Noah did. But when the Tribulation actually starts we are no where to be found.

                Looking up at any moment. staying ready, Being an overcomer!!!!

                Praise the Lord!
                The Ark is a good type of rapture



                Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by makeupgirl View Post
                  I'm confused. I thought the rapture and the day of the Lord was the same thing? since rapture means harpazo in the greek for caught up or something like that.

                  **ps** i'm still at work so forgive me if i'm off base
                  Harpazo is the rapture
                  the day of the Lord is Jesus' second coming



                  Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                  Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                  Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
                    Harpazo is the rapture
                    the day of the Lord is Jesus' second coming
                    gotcha. Thanks. I'm must be getting sleepy, cuz the brain has stopped working a bit.

                    Comment

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