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    • Originally posted by MidnightCry View Post
      I can't answer your questions -- I think what you've always thought is close to what I have as well and what your pastor is saying I've not heard before. If you're interested in listening to more on Mt 24, try this link. Pastor Brett Meador is at Athey Creek Christian Fellowship here in the metro area and it is a rapidly growing church. I think his expository teaching through the Bible verse by verse is a large reason why. He's one of the few pastors who are touching prophecy these days. As you will see, he "happens" to have just finished Matt 24 in three sermons. I'm listening to the first one (Mt 24:3-12) now.

      http://www.atheycreekfellowship.org/teachings.aspx
      I work at Liberty University, and this allows me to learn from some great prophecy teachers that work here like Elmer Towns, Harold Willmington, Ed Hindson and Thomas Ice. I have asked all of them the question about Matt. 24, two will be in the field one will be taken and one will be left. They all agree that this is in no way talking about the rapture. It is talking about the end of the Great Tribulation and the one's taken are being taken into Judgement, they are the unrepentant sinners. The ones left are the saved.

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      • Originally posted by JABowman View Post
        I work at Liberty University, and this allows me to learn from some great prophecy teachers that work here like Elmer Towns, Harold Willmington, Ed Hindson and Thomas Ice. I have asked all of them the question about Matt. 24, two will be in the field one will be taken and one will be left. They all agree that this is in no way talking about the rapture. It is talking about the end of the Great Tribulation and the one's taken are being taken into Judgement, they are the unrepentant sinners. The ones left are the saved.
        You are sooooooo lucky!!!!!!!

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        • Originally posted by JABowman View Post
          I work at Liberty University, and this allows me to learn from some great prophecy teachers that work here like Elmer Towns, Harold Willmington, Ed Hindson and Thomas Ice. I have asked all of them the question about Matt. 24, two will be in the field one will be taken and one will be left. They all agree that this is in no way talking about the rapture. It is talking about the end of the Great Tribulation and the one's taken are being taken into Judgement, they are the unrepentant sinners. The ones left are the saved.
          Agreed!

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          • Originally posted by JABowman View Post
            I work at Liberty University, and this allows me to learn from some great prophecy teachers that work here like Elmer Towns, Harold Willmington, Ed Hindson and Thomas Ice. I have asked all of them the question about Matt. 24, two will be in the field one will be taken and one will be left. They all agree that this is in no way talking about the rapture. It is talking about the end of the Great Tribulation and the one's taken are being taken into Judgement, they are the unrepentant sinners. The ones left are the saved.
            That's awesome JAB
            Last edited by Steve53; June 14th, 2009, 03:50 PM. Reason: Updating thread
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            Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

            John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

            Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


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            • The article can remain and it is noted that the one in the field is taken to judgment, not raptured.



              Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
              Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
              Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

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              • Originally posted by acceptedinthebeloved View Post

                A. The phrase “that day” in Matt. 24:36 refers back to verses 29 and 30, speaking of the 2nd coming, and verse 37 confirms that Jesus was talking about the 2nd coming. By the way, verse 36 says that no one will know about that day, not that no one will know the day. And while the Great Tribulation is 1260 days long and counting those days will bring you to the time of the second coming, verses 42 and 44 seem to say that no one will know the exact day and hour of His return until he actually shows up. In any case the context in Matt. 24 from verse 29 on is clearly the 2nd Coming.
                When I was a grade schooler going to Catechism, this would always be the topic on the last day of class before summer break. The way we were taught it was that this was THE second coming. No rapture, no tribulation, just one day Jesus will appear and that would be it. (They didn't actually say no rapture or no tribulation...but looking back, they didn't say anything about them either.)

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                • Originally posted by FrankBeMe View Post
                  When I was a grade schooler going to Catechism, this would always be the topic on the last day of class before summer break. The way we were taught it was that this was THE second coming. No rapture, no tribulation, just one day Jesus will appear and that would be it. (They didn't actually say no rapture or no tribulation...but looking back, they didn't say anything about them either.)
                  that is the preterist view
                  they can't deny the Second Coming since scripture is explicit on the return of Jesus



                  Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                  Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                  Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                  Comment


                  • Support for pretrib rapture

                    After a meeting this morning my pastor asked me a question which I instantly recognized as one which is valid and which many pre-tribbers have asked themselves before. It was, "Why does it seem 90% of all people who hold any kind of end times' position so resent dispensationalism and/or the pre-trib position?

                    While I didn't have an answer right at that time for him, I did later on, after thinking about it. The pre-trib position is irreversibly tied to dispensationalism, even if a pre-tribber doesn't necessarily agree with all the tenants of it. One basic tenant of dispensationalism which all pre-tribbers do agree on is the separation/distinction between Israel and the Church. Pre-tribbers see that God is not finished with Israel and that she has a Glorious future ahead, beyond the time of the Church on this earth.

                    Contrast that for a moment with what the world thinks. Most of the world is either indifferent or hostile to Israel. Indeed, God Himself has Prophesied that all the nations will eventually come against Israel and Jerusalem. We today can see things progressing rapidly toward a fulfillment of that Prophecy. As it happens, antisemitism grows and effects even those in the Church, particularly those who attend assemblies/denominations where political activism is heavy and what the world thinks carries much weight. Some denominations have gone so far as to openly criticize Israel for it's perceived right to the land it holds or for it's treatment of Palestinians. There is little regard for what God's Word says about Israel's future or for other watershed issues either. As a result, the wisdom God offers which is Truth is supplanted by the wisdom of the world, which is really none at all.

                    Let's face it. As the world continues to form itself against Israel, all pre-millennial positions, including pre-trib, will become less and less palatable to the world and even to professing Christians who are closer to the world than others. It would seem to logically follow that hatred for Israel will also transfer to our theology, adding to the hatred the world already feels for us because of Jesus Christ.

                    There are other reasons, of course, why other professing Christians may disagree with or "hate" the pre-trib position, but hatred for Israel certainly underlies some of these emotions. The world doesn't want a Glorious future for Israel. Some don't want any kind of future for Israel. Because pre-tribbers believe in the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, we also love what God does and that includes Israel. If we say we don't or we abandon that love, then we clearly do not understand His Ways.

                    We have a unique privilege as pre-tribbers. God has lead us all to this faith and the peace we derive from it. No other group of Christians can go out and present both the Eternal Hope of Jesus Christ and the Blessed Hope as defined by our position. We of all people have the most positive, encouraging message there is to give. So let's not lose heart and continue giving it.

                    Soon.

                    Comment


                    • AMEN! Thank you for this thread and sharing this with us.....

                      I also think a lot of christians that don't see the pretrib view mostly want there little world to continue, so they can keep living there lives in denial of what is really going on, I have heard so many people say, I have heard this for years and years and they just don't see it, very sad indeed, because they miss the immency of getting the gospel message out while it is the age of grace still. or to any lost soul that has ears to listen....I don't understand why people just don't wake up....smell the coffee already...

                      Comment


                      • "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

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                        • Jack Kelley wrote an article on this not long ago:

                          http://gracethrufaith.com/my-thought...t-the-rapture/

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                          • Originally posted by Seated View Post
                            After a meeting this morning my pastor asked me a question which I instantly recognized as one which is valid and which many pre-tribbers have asked themselves before. It was, "Why does it seem 90% of all people who hold any kind of end times' position so resent dispensationalism and/or the pre-trib position?

                            While I didn't have an answer right at that time for him, I did later on, after thinking about it. The pre-trib position is irreversibly tied to dispensationalism, even if a pre-tribber doesn't necessarily agree with all the tenants of it. One basic tenant of dispensationalism which all pre-tribbers do agree on is the separation/distinction between Israel and the Church. Pre-tribbers see that God is not finished with Israel and that she has a Glorious future ahead, beyond the time of the Church on this earth.

                            Contrast that for a moment with what the world thinks. Most of the world is either indifferent or hostile to Israel. Indeed, God Himself has Prophesied that all the nations will eventually come against Israel and Jerusalem. We today can see things progressing rapidly toward a fulfillment of that Prophecy. As it happens, antisemitism grows and effects even those in the Church, particularly those who attend assemblies/denominations where political activism is heavy and what the world thinks carries much weight. Some denominations have gone so far as to openly criticize Israel for it's perceived right to the land it holds or for it's treatment of Palestinians. There is little regard for what God's Word says about Israel's future or for other watershed issues either. As a result, the wisdom God offers which is Truth is supplanted by the wisdom of the world, which is really none at all.

                            Let's face it. As the world continues to form itself against Israel, all pre-millennial positions, including pre-trib, will become less and less palatable to the world and even to professing Christians who are closer to the world than others. It would seem to logically follow that hatred for Israel will also transfer to our theology, adding to the hatred the world already feels for us because of Jesus Christ.

                            There are other reasons, of course, why other professing Christians may disagree with or "hate" the pre-trib position, but hatred for Israel certainly underlies some of these emotions. The world doesn't want a Glorious future for Israel. Some don't want any kind of future for Israel. Because pre-tribbers believe in the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, we also love what God does and that includes Israel. If we say we don't or we abandon that love, then we clearly do not understand His Ways.

                            We have a unique privilege as pre-tribbers. God has lead us all to this faith and the peace we derive from it. No other group of Christians can go out and present both the Eternal Hope of Jesus Christ and the Blessed Hope as defined by our position. We of all people have the most positive, encouraging message there is to give. So let's not lose heart and continue giving it.

                            Soon.
                            Good post, Seated. Thank you. Right on target.

                            Comment


                            • I have noticed the absolute hatred that comes out of people's mouth about the pre-trib rapture, and can only conclude that pre-trib must be right. Why else would it be attacked so vehemently? Usually, people who are wrong attack people and spew violent hatred against (and some things I have read from post and mid tribbers are very violent and hateful) people who are right, and people who are right are usually more peaceful when talking to people who are wrong. That's just what I've noticed.

                              Comment


                              • I tend to agree with you, however, I do not know if the hatred of Israel is the root cause of the hatred of the pre-trib position. I find that most people look at me like I am crazy when I say that our God loves us enough to save us from the coming calamity. I think most unsaved people cant wrap their head around the idea of millions and millions of people disappearing in an instant. But the reason most saved non-pretribbers dont believe in the pre-trib rapture is either because a) they dont fully believe/understand the power of the cross, b) they feel inadequate that they need to be purified by the trib to obtain salvation, or c) they dont understand/believe in the different dispensations (which seems to be what you are arguing). The reason I dont think the misunderstanding of dispensationalism is the most prominent cause for the hatred of the pre-trib position is because if you were to go up and ask 10 Christians what "dispensationalism" meant, probably more than 9 out of 10 would just glare back at you with an empty look on their face.....because they've never even heard of the word.

                                I would argue that the hatred of the pre-trib position comes more from the fact that it has been 2000 years and no 2nd Coming yet. Even Christians are saying, " 'Where is this coming he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.' " IMO, I feel 2 Peter 3:4 has more to do with it than dispensationalism.

                                But I absolutely agree with you that the hatred of Israel is shaping the theology of the church today......great observation!

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