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  • Eddy - In addition to all of the material at this site - including this thread - you might find the information at the following link to be of interest concerning Dispensationalism and pre-Trib/pre-Mil beliefs. See if they make Biblical sense to you. http://www.pre-trib.org/articles
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

    Jesus + nothing = Everything

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
      Ok, so it was written to a church. My question is how could a Church be told that their "relief" will be at the Second Coming of Christ? So ...the Church is present until the Secound Coming of Christ? This a question about the Rapture and the Church. They are still here? Thanks!
      It is not saying they will finally receive relief at His Second Coming. That idea is "read into" the text.


      [quote]

      "It has been supposed that "rest . . . when" means the moment of relief. Nothing is more unfounded. The reasoning of the apostle is that, Christ introducing the day, it was not when He had the upper hand that His people would be troubled and ill-treated. Was He going to treat them so? In the day exactly the contrary would be the case: they would enjoy rest and blessing; the persecutors would be troubled. The Greek used for rest by no means conveys always the same meaning of a moment of relaxation arriving; it is never so used in Scripture. The other passages are Acts 24:23; 2 Corinthians 2:12; chap. 7:5; chap. 8:13. It is used in the same sense here. In 2 Cor. 8:13, the Greek words for 'burden,' 'tribulation,' and 'rest,' are in a similar opposition as here in 2 Thess. 1:6, 7."
      - J.N. Darby


      No, the Church is not still present on the earth at His Second Coming (having already been raptured out BEFORE the tribulation period), though I believe we return WITH Him (Colossians 3:4).


      How is it that you are "Pretrib Eddy"?

      Or are you just momentarily confused?

      Comment


      • [QUOTE=upwardbound;2447894]It is not saying they will finally receive relief at His Second Coming. That idea is "read into" the text.



        "It has been supposed that "rest . . . when" means the moment of relief. Nothing is more unfounded. The reasoning of the apostle is that, Christ introducing the day, it was not when He had the upper hand that His people would be troubled and ill-treated. Was He going to treat them so? In the day exactly the contrary would be the case: they would enjoy rest and blessing; the persecutors would be troubled. The Greek used for rest by no means conveys always the same meaning of a moment of relaxation arriving; it is never so used in Scripture. The other passages are Acts 24:23; 2 Corinthians 2:12; chap. 7:5; chap. 8:13. It is used in the same sense here. In 2 Cor. 8:13, the Greek words for 'burden,' 'tribulation,' and 'rest,' are in a similar opposition as here in 2 Thess. 1:6, 7."
        - J.N. Darby


        No, the Church is not still present on the earth at His Second Coming (having already been raptured out BEFORE the tribulation period), though I believe we return WITH Him (Colossians 3:4).


        How is it that you are "Pretrib Eddy"?

        Or are you just momentarily confused?
        Thanks for your imput. I am a PreTrib believer. I was just trying to understand this passage from a PreTrib understanding.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by iSong6:3 View Post
          Eddy - In addition to all of the material at this site - including this thread - you might find the information at the following link to be of interest concerning Dispensationalism and pre-Trib/pre-Mil beliefs. See if they make Biblical sense to you. http://www.pre-trib.org/articles
          Thanks! I will check them out.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Steve53 View Post


            Swing and a miss. The Church will not go through the Trib.
            Agreed! Thanks for helping me.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
              I was just trying to understand this passage from a PreTrib understanding.


              With all due respect - You did not make that clear in any of your previous posts and if one believes in a pre-tribulation rapture, then one's understanding should have been plain.

              So now I'm more confused than I was before about just what exactly - given the context of the verses - it was you were having trouble with in the first place.

              sigpic
              Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

              John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

              Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


              Comment


              • Originally posted by Steve53 View Post


                With all due respect - You did not make that clear in any of your previous posts and if one believes in a pre-tribulation rapture, then one's understanding should have been plain.

                So now I'm more confused than I was before about just what exactly - given the context of the verses - it was you were having trouble with in the first place.

                Sorry if my post(s) were confusing. This passage is a classic "proof-text" of the Post-Tribers, and while I reject their take on it, it is helpful to get imput from fellow Pre-Tribers to clarify one's understanding. I have been reading the book "Three Views on the Rapture" and Douglas Moo (Post-Triber) makes much of this passage as supporting his position. Frankly, I don't see that, and the posts here have been useful for me. Thanks for your help and patience with me.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                  Sorry if my post(s) were confusing. This passage is a classic "proof-text" of the Post-Tribers, and while I reject their take on it, it is helpful to get imput from fellow Pre-Tribers to clarify one's understanding. I have been reading the book "Three Views on the Rapture" and Douglas Moo (Post-Triber) makes much of this passage as supporting his position. Frankly, I don't see that, and the posts here have been useful for me. Thanks for your help and patience with me.
                  Eddy - You could have and should have approached us with the theme of that query right out of the gate.

                  We sensed a deliberate obtuseness - we weren't confused at all. We were curious.

                  We were curious why feigned ignorance continued after questions were asked and answered and then a thread merge with the entire topic covered in depth. You presented - to us - as a classic troll. For our part, you might really appreciate that our jobs as moderators require us to be vigilant and watch for the signs of such behavior.

                  Our welcome mat is still out but our moment in the petri dish must come to an end.

                  We hope you understand.

                  We do hope you will hang around and participate and we look forward to discussing other topics with you as you interact with the members.
                  sigpic
                  Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                  John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                  Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                    Sorry if my post(s) were confusing. This passage is a classic "proof-text" of the Post-Tribers,
                    Post-tribbers have no proof-text when examined within context.

                    Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                    The Church going thourgh the Trib...GOT IT.
                    The new testament church- NT saints, the Bride of Christ, will be raptured before the Tribulation saints go through the tribulation; the church will be gone and Israel will take up prominence again after the church age of God's grace is gone.

                    Mr Eddy, are you honestly pre-trib or actually a post-tribber?



                    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                    Comment


                    • Not Coincidental

                      I'm thrilled and flabbergasted at the excellent job you've done here, Buzz. In my isolation from most of the world due to a severe terminal illness, I've spent an unusually great deal of time in prayer and in remaining in contact with the Holy Spirit. Through my studies and my prayers for discernment concerning it all, this very same set of conclusions have been understood by me, as well as to my small circle of friends who believe as do I, and apparently as do you and many of our fellow posters on RR. I've written a book of instructions for those left behind in this upcoming mess (which I'll let God promote and not this site). You're in my prayers and my hope is that those contributing their comments will stay the course. If you don't mind I have a couple of requests. The first is for everyone to look past the satanic dog and pony show of obsessing over the politics and worldly trends going on in deference to speaking more to folks about Jesus's instructions and His salvation-------about heaven and hell instead of this year's current bad guy(s). This diversion is a time and energy waster in these final days leading to our Lord's imminent return. The other somewhat selfish request is for your prayers that I'll get to enjoy hearing that trumpet calling with the rest of you who're still living before this worn out old body gives in. In this state of near-death I've been shown many things regarding our destination, and although words can't properly explain God's phenomenal kingdom (Seriously!), believe me when I tell you we're not going into retirement and there's nothing at all "planetary" about heaven. Hallelujah!!! I'll see y'all by the water. Brother Steve.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by redeemed View Post
                        I'm thrilled and flabbergasted at the excellent job you've done here, Buzz. In my isolation from most of the world due to a severe terminal illness, I've spent an unusually great deal of time in prayer and in remaining in contact with the Holy Spirit. Through my studies and my prayers for discernment concerning it all, this very same set of conclusions have been understood by me, as well as to my small circle of friends who believe as do I, and apparently as do you and many of our fellow posters on RR. I've written a book of instructions for those left behind in this upcoming mess (which I'll let God promote and not this site). You're in my prayers and my hope is that those contributing their comments will stay the course. If you don't mind I have a couple of requests. The first is for everyone to look past the satanic dog and pony show of obsessing over the politics and worldly trends going on in deference to speaking more to folks about Jesus's instructions and His salvation-------about heaven and hell instead of this year's current bad guy(s). This diversion is a time and energy waster in these final days leading to our Lord's imminent return. The other somewhat selfish request is for your prayers that I'll get to enjoy hearing that trumpet calling with the rest of you who're still living before this worn out old body gives in. In this state of near-death I've been shown many things regarding our destination, and although words can't properly explain God's phenomenal kingdom (Seriously!), believe me when I tell you we're not going into retirement and there's nothing at all "planetary" about heaven. Hallelujah!!! I'll see y'all by the water. Brother Steve.
                        That means a lot to me and I appreciate your sincere comments; I was never interested in politics, and actually found it quite boring, until it entered the spiritual realm, which is my forte, only then it became interesting, and as salt and light, politics are important for us multitasked watchers to sound the alarm and expose evil before the watching world. It's our job until the rapture.



                        Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                        Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                        Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                        Comment


                        • Since you asked..........

                          Originally posted by random dude View Post
                          Hey Buzzard, is it alright if we make a thread to discuss the timing of the rapture in a friendly brothers-in-Christ manner? Sorry, but I cant see it being pre-trib (maybe you guys can convince me). The verses on the rapture like in Thessalonians dont say it is pre-trib, so I don't understand how they can be used as proof for pre-trib. There's also some practical concerns, like airplanes are going to crash. all traffic will crash, killing people cause of the beamed up drivers. medics doing surgery will disappear, leaving their patient to die? the Bible doesn't speak of this, so I don't see how it is believable.
                          I'm new to this site, but not to this nearly spent earth, Random Dude. It's not a coincidence that my several decades of scientific and historical research and the last fifteen years of seriously deep prayer and spreading Christ's instructions have led me to the exact same clear-cut conclusions as has Brother Buzzardhut. Pre-trib? Yes. Indeed, planes trains and automobiles are going to crash in the greatest melee of all times and critical operations are going to become unmanned in a blink. A notable portion of our armed forces will just disappear with the rest of us who adore Christ. Not fun, Bro. Mother Nature's going to let 'er rip with her tantrums and terrorism's going to erupt worldwide. Initializing this great tribulation will be the mother of all wars in the middle east. How can you miss the fact that turmoil is to be the keynote announcement of the end times? After we're snatched up, left behind will be the atheists, pagans, agnostics,and those who don't know Jesus, even many of those falsely calling themselves Christians, as simply knowing about Him won't matter. Merely belonging to a Christ claiming denomination won't count, as belonging to His fan club doesn't guarantee His autograph (His Lamb's Book of Life). The Bible doesn't speak of this world's troubles? Are you absolutely certain you and Jesus know one another? He spoke of this: "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'" Matthew 2:22,23. 'Simple solution, here. Pray for discernment and re-read the Scriptures on your own. Hopefully we'll see you by the water. Brother Steve.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by redeemed View Post
                            In this state of near-death I've been shown many things regarding our destination, and although words can't properly explain God's phenomenal kingdom (Seriously!), believe me when I tell you we're not going into retirement and there's nothing at all "planetary" about heaven. Hallelujah!!! I'll see y'all by the water. Brother Steve.
                            Hello, redeemed. Thank you fo sharing your thoughts Rapture and you walk with Christ.
                            {Mod Snip} Nothing compares to the reality He reveals to those who want to know Him.


                            Originally posted by redeemed View Post
                            After we're snatched up, left behind will be the atheists, pagans, agnostics,and those who don't know Jesus, even many of those falsely calling themselves Christians, as simply knowing about Him won't matter.
                            Plus new agers, who at first will be perhaps happy that all haters disappeared and cleansing process started that will bring their ascension.....
                            I am saying it with heaviness in my heart, as I remember myself when I first saw and believed the truth about Pre-trib rapture it was not pleasant to see how decieved I was, I had been a reborn Christian for quite enough before that day and was asking God many questions about the difference between our godless times and times of Noah and we are still not destructed by God......
                            The most simple answer was most logical and appeared to hard to believe at first, but the more I trusted God, the more He explained and strengthened my faith. I guess Kleopa and his friend felt the same way when they sad their hearts were burning with fire when Jesus explained them from the Law and Prophets.
                            Last edited by Steve53; December 21st, 2013, 05:05 PM.
                            Marantha!

                            Comment


                            • Buzz -
                              You have more than likely answered every possible question(s) in regard to this wonderful post of yours, and this is probably a repeat (over 100,000 readings!!) But….. a couple of things keep coming up in my thoughts.

                              So the Tribulation Saints, many whom are murdered for their belief in Christ are not part of the Bride (which is already in heaven), but… will they be made part of The Bride? I am just curious as to what you feel is their position in heaven, after losing their lives for their belief in Christ during the Tribulation.

                              And, I have been taught so many interpretations of "The 10 Virgins". I understand the symbolism of the marriage, and the rapture, and "those that are ready and those that are not". But it does make me constantly examine my life in that…. ALL of the virgins knew the bridegroom was coming. They are ALL looking for him, but only those that "are ready" get taken to the wedding. There is a theory that some believers will be part of the Bride, others just wedding guests, but in my heart, I also believe that we are ALL so lacking, except for what Christ did FOR us, on our behalf - we either believe or we don't, thus we are either a part of the Bride or we are not.

                              I guess I am just not clear about those virgins, who were LOOKING for the bridegroom but were not ready… Saved or not? Can you give me a little insight?

                              And thank you so much for your patience with folks like me, and all you do on this wonderful forum. I know you must get tired answering some of our questions, but I for one learn from every one of them. Can't tell you how much it is appreciated. Many blessings to you -
                              a Monarchist awaiting
                              "The Return of the King"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by maranatha14 View Post
                                So the Tribulation Saints, many whom are murdered for their belief in Christ are not part of the Bride (which is already in heaven), but… will they be made part of The Bride? I am just curious as to what you feel is their position in heaven, after losing their lives for their belief in Christ during the Tribulation.
                                The bride is already raptured, the trib saints are a separate group.
                                Originally posted by maranatha14 View Post
                                And, I have been taught so many interpretations of "The 10 Virgins". I understand the symbolism of the marriage, and the rapture, and "those that are ready and those that are not". But it does make me constantly examine my life in that…. ALL of the virgins knew the bridegroom was coming. They are ALL looking for him, but only those that "are ready" get taken to the wedding. There is a theory that some believers will be part of the Bride, others just wedding guests, but in my heart, I also believe that we are ALL so lacking, except for what Christ did FOR us, on our behalf - we either believe or we don't, thus we are either a part of the Bride or we are not.
                                http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?7494...ise-amp-Unwise
                                Originally posted by maranatha14 View Post
                                I guess I am just not clear about those virgins, who were LOOKING for the bridegroom but were not ready… Saved or not? Can you give me a little insight?
                                Their faith is in their religion, not in Jesus, and they do not believe Jesus is returning quickly.
                                Originally posted by maranatha14 View Post
                                And thank you so much for your patience with folks like me, and all you do on this wonderful forum. I know you must get tired answering some of our questions, but I for one learn from every one of them. Can't tell you how much it is appreciated. Many blessings to you -



                                Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                                Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                                Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

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