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  • Originally posted by Maywood View Post
    Starting from the 1st Pentecost and until the Mass evacuation (Rapture).
    Just my 2 cents.
    Amen!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
      My understanding is that the term "NT Saint" refers to all the People of God during this present Church Age. Not just first century believers.
      Thanks for the responses. I guess my thought was that NT Saints would be in heaven in glorified bodies at the Rapture forward and "not" on earth during the millennial reign, though I know we come back to earth with Christ to rule and reign with him forever, I never thought we would be here (living) for the 1000 years, but we'd live in our heavenly mansions. Guess I need to sharpen my skills a bit on this one...

      God Bless!

      From Buzz:
      There are OT Saints, NT Saints, and Tribulation Saints who become Millennium citizens and populate the Millennial kingdom.
      The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.... Living for Jesus - Listening for the Trumpet

      :snoopy

      Comment


      • Originally posted by In Christ View Post
        Thanks for the responses. I guess my thought was that NT Saints would be in heaven in glorified bodies at the Rapture forward and "not" on earth during the millennial reign, though I know we come back to earth with Christ to rule and reign with him forever, I never thought we would be here (living) for the 1000 years, but we'd live in our heavenly mansions. Guess I need to sharpen my skills a bit on this one...

        God Bless!

        From Buzz:
        You're not far off, friend. The Church will spend the seven years after the Rapture with the Lord in Heaven. Then we come back with Jesus at the end of the Trib. We will spend the Millennium in the New Jerusalem. Many think it will orbit the earth because it will be too big to fit on the earth and iirc would make the planet unbalanced if landed.

        I need to run now, but I can get you the Scriptures on it later on. Also, if you Google *New Jerusalem* you can see how different artists have imagined it. They are stunning, but we know the real thing will be literally indescribably better because we're told no one has seen or heard or even imagined what God has prepared for us. 1 Corinthians 2:9
        "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


        Jesus + something = nothing

        Jesus + nothing = Everything

        Comment


        • Originally posted by iSong6:3 View Post
          You're not far off, friend. The Church will spend the seven years after the Rapture with the Lord in Heaven. Then we come back with Jesus at the end of the Trib. We will spend the Millennium in the New Jerusalem. Many think it will orbit the earth because it will be too big to fit on the earth and iirc would make the planet unbalanced if landed.

          I need to run now, but I can get you the Scriptures on it later on. Also, if you Google *New Jerusalem* you can see how different artists have imagined it. They are stunning, but we know the real thing will be literally indescribably better because we're told no one has seen or heard or even imagined what God has prepared for us. 1 Corinthians 2:9
          Thanks ISong! That is what my understanding has always been. We would be in the New Jerusalem which according to the book of Revelation hovers above the earth. I did not think we would be living here on Earth but in the New Jerusalem. However, I have read where there are many that believe the NJ will rest upon the earth. What threw me off was the statement that NT Saints would be Millennial Citizens (I interpreted that to mean we would have to live on the Earth to be a citizen)... Thanks!
          The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.... Living for Jesus - Listening for the Trumpet

          :snoopy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Steve53 View Post
            The overall context of the letter is key - The Thessalonians had been hearing different things and were afraid the rapture may have already occurred so Paul was reminding them of things that will happen post rapture.
            Thanks for your answer. So, did II Thess. 1: 5-12, Even ever actually speak to the "Church?" The Church is told that they will find "relief" at the SECOND COMING. Is that true?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
              Thanks for your answer. So, did II Thess. 1: 5-12, Even ever actually speak to the "Church?" The Church is told that they will find "relief" at the SECOND COMING. Is that true?
              Again the context is key. The point being that the church will have already been raptured at the second coming so I don't really follow your question as it relates back to the church.

              You need to keep reading through the next chapters wherein Paul reminds his audience of the things that were revealed to him and that he had told them about those revelations previously. His letter served as a reassurance that the rapture had not yet happened and that they were to remain steadfast because all was well. The rapture was yet future and they hadn't missed a thing....
              sigpic
              Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

              John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

              Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


              Comment


              • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                Thanks for your answer. So, did II Thess. 1: 5-12, Even ever actually speak to the "Church?" The Church is told that they will find "relief" at the SECOND COMING. Is that true?
                Yes, it was written to the Church. But consider that "rest with us at the revelation of Jesus Christ" means something different than to "find relief at the Second Coming" (verse 7), and that the part (in verse 10) where it says, "when He shall come TO BE glorified in His saints" does not mean, "when He shall come TO GLORIFY His saints," as some would have it say. We are already "resting" and "glorified" when He comes at His Second Coming to execute His judgment on those who believe not.




                I think the following versions best reflect the intention (of verse 7):

                "and to you that are troubled repose with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with the angels of his power" (Darby)

                "and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire" (American Standard Version)

                "and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power" (English Revised Version)

                "and to you who are troubled -- rest with us in the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with messengers of his power" (Young's Literal Translation)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by upwardbound View Post
                  Yes, it was written to the Church. But consider that "rest with us at the revelation of Jesus Christ" means something different than to "find relief at the Second Coming" (verse 7), and that the part (in verse 10) where it says, "when He shall come TO BE glorified in His saints" does not mean, "when He shall come TO GLORIFY His saints," as some would have it say. We are already "resting" and "glorified" when He comes at His Second Coming to execute His judgment on those who believe not.




                  I think the following versions best reflect the intention (of verse 7):

                  "and to you that are troubled repose with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with the angels of his power" (Darby)

                  "and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire" (American Standard Version)

                  "and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power" (English Revised Version)

                  "and to you who are troubled -- rest with us in the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with messengers of his power" (Young's Literal Translation)
                  Ok, so it was written to a church. My question is how could a Church be told that their "relief" will be at the Second Coming of Christ? So ...the Church is present until the Secound Coming of Christ? This a question about the Rapture and the Church. They are still here? Thanks!

                  Comment


                  • IF the "church" is NOT present at the Rapture. Could My friends PLEASE Help me? Thanks!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                      IF the "church" is NOT present at the Rapture. Could My friends PLEASE Help me? Thanks!
                      I am really confused as to your question but will give a stab at it.

                      The words church and even Christian are sometimes used as including both the Bride --"Pentecost to Rapture" believers and Tribulation Saints. I agree that it causes confusion.

                      The Bride is the "us" in the quotes that upwardbound posted.

                      The Trib Saints are the "you that are afflicted" in those passages.

                      What is really important is to use the context of the passages as Steve53 posted.

                      We need to use clear passages to help with passages that are not so clear possibly due to our prowess in the Greek language nuances.

                      One event that we all can agree that will be AFTER the rapture is the Lordís Wrath (orgēn SG#3709).

                      1 Thess 1:10 even Jesus, who delivered (SG#4506) us from (apo SG# 575) the wrath (orgēn) to come

                      apo SG# 575 Means separation of Place & Time
                      (SG#4506) Delivers --- to draw to oneself

                      This verse is clearly stating that the Bride will be "drawn to Himself" and kept from the "Time and Place" of the "Wrath" of God.

                      This is also clearly stated in Rom 5:9 & 1 Thess 5:9 among others.

                      Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from (apo) wrath (orgēn SG#3709) through him.

                      1 Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath (orgēn SG#3709), but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

                      So these verses clearly state that the Bride will be Kept from the Time and the Place of the Lord's Wrath. i.e. The Rapture.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                        Ok, so it was written to a church. My question is how could a Church be told that their "relief" will be at the Second Coming of Christ? So ...the Church is present until the Secound Coming of Christ? This a question about the Rapture and the Church. They are still here? Thanks!
                        Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                        IF the "church" is NOT present at the Rapture. Could My friends PLEASE Help me? Thanks!
                        Not really sure why you are still asking essentially the same question that's been answered already.

                        The rapture is a taking up of the church age believers who are alive at the moment the rapture happens. All those who have died in Christ before us will precede us in the rapture. Not really sure how to make this any more clear.

                        The Second Coming happens at the end of the Tribulation, at least 7 years after the rapture.
                        sigpic
                        Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                        John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                        Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


                        Comment


                        • The Church going thourgh the Trib...GOT IT.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                            The Church going thourgh the Trib...GOT IT.


                            Swing and a miss. The Church will not go through the Trib.
                            sigpic
                            Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

                            John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                            Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                              The Church going thourgh the Trib...GOT IT.
                              Eddy - The Church/Bride of Christ will be Raptured. The Church cannot go through the Trib because it will have been removed via the Rapture. They will be in Heaven with Jesus. That's where He takes the Church when He Raptures it.

                              The Age of Grace/Church Age - from Pentecost to the Rapture - will be over at the Rapture. There will be no more Church on earth, they will be gone, Jesus will take the Church to Heaven at the Rapture. There will be no more Church on earth.

                              After the Church is removed from the earth, there will be people who come to faith in Jesus. They will not be part of the Church because the Church Age is over at the Rapture when the Church is taken up to Heaven by Jesus.

                              The believers after the Church is Raptured are called "Trib saints." If they were the Church they would be called the Church. But they are not part of the Church. Believers after the Church has been Raptured are "Trib saints."

                              ****Important to Note**** Often in the Bible things are said in the second-person but it is also or only intended in the third-person. Meaning that the person says "you" but means for people later in history too. We see that, in context, Paul is speaking here to believers in the last days. (Remember, this is not the Church, but the Trib saints.) Jesus employed this method too.

                              Hope that helps.
                              "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


                              Jesus + something = nothing

                              Jesus + nothing = Everything

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Pretrib Eddy View Post
                                Just a simple question. In 2Thess.1:7 there is promised a "relief" to the Church. These dear church people are promised relief at the 2nd Coming.. Tell me what Paul was referring to, if not the 2nd Coming. How could that be true in light of our Pre-trib Rapture? Was Paul talking to a church? Any insights?
                                In speaking of the persecution of these believers, Paul says that at the second coming, God will repay those who are doing the persecuting with affliction and retribution, while at the same time finally bringing relief from persecution, which will continue even after the rapture--for the tribulation saints. Even though the church will no longer be persecuted following the rapture, believers at that time will then experience even more horrific persecution. Relief for all of us comes at Christ's return when we see divine justice meted out to our persecutors.

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