Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

U.S. Gay Marriage - The Media, Hollywood and on State and Federal Levels *Merged*

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I don't usually reply, more of a lurker on here. I've spent a lot of time the past couple of years studying and now I'm in seminary to further my studies. I've learned a lot on here, but I would like to give my 2 cents on this issue.

    In my understanding, giving homosexuals all of the benefits of marriage, but not calling it "marriage", is basically a rose by another name. It's the same exact thing, just not "formalized" with the term "marriage". This is compromise with the homosexual agenda and the devil loves compromise. At the end of the day, homosexual marriage will be legal in all of America, whether we approached it initially through civil unions or not. By giving them such things is almost like giving them a head nod that what they're doing is "ok", even if we truly don't believe that. If I attended a church and leadership announced they would support homosexual "civil unions", I would question leadership and, if the stance did not change, I would leave.

    All in all, we have to stand firm for the faith, but do it with the right heart. Just as I would not stand for homosexual civil unions, I would not stand for polygamous civil unions. Where do the civil unions end? Does man and animal also receive civil union benefits? My point is, there is either marriage or nothing. There is no such talk as civil unions in the Bible because no such thing exists and I don't believe should ever exist. Either one is living in sin, or living according to the Word of God.

    Salvation is important and that which we all hope for many to receive, but the ends do not justify the means. Truth is more important than salvation, in my opinion. God does not want us to compromise to reach the lost, such compromise may save a few, but the multitudes that compromise are left much worse for wear. Just a quick example off the top of my head, God killed a man in the OT for compromising the way the ark was carried. How much more if we play around the issue of marriage by adding civil unions? This is the reason why we have such compromise in churches across the world today. Fundamentalists were "too strict", so Neo-Evangelicals arose. 20-30 years later they became the "young evangelicals" and, in four short years after in 1978, they coined themselves the "worldly evangelicals". Yes, the early neo-evangelicals may have made small compromises to see some saved, but look at where we are today with the compromise in our churches. The illustration is just an example of how a small compromise can develop into a huge falling away.

    So, all in all, I do not support and cannot support civil unions. There is marriage according to what God said, and that is that. Civil unions are, in my opinion, a compromise with the enemy for a small interim period. A compromise that would have profound, negative effects on many Christians and lost individuals.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Nickz View Post
      I don't usually reply, more of a lurker on here. I've spent a lot of time the past couple of years studying and now I'm in seminary to further my studies. I've learned a lot on here, but I would like to give my 2 cents on this issue.

      In my understanding, giving homosexuals all of the benefits of marriage, but not calling it "marriage", is basically a rose by another name. It's the same exact thing, just not "formalized" with the term "marriage". This is compromise with the homosexual agenda and the devil loves compromise. At the end of the day, homosexual marriage will be legal in all of America, whether we approached it initially through civil unions or not. By giving them such things is almost like giving them a head nod that what they're doing is "ok", even if we truly don't believe that. If I attended a church and leadership announced they would support homosexual "civil unions", I would question leadership and, if the stance did not change, I would leave.

      All in all, we have to stand firm for the faith, but do it with the right heart. Just as I would not stand for homosexual civil unions, I would not stand for polygamous civil unions. Where do the civil unions end? Does man and animal also receive civil union benefits? My point is, there is either marriage or nothing. There is no such talk as civil unions in the Bible because no such thing exists and I don't believe should ever exist. Either one is living in sin, or living according to the Word of God.

      Salvation is important and that which we all hope for many to receive, but the ends do not justify the means. Truth is more important than salvation, in my opinion. God does not want us to compromise to reach the lost, such compromise may save a few, but the multitudes that compromise are left much worse for wear. Just a quick example off the top of my head, God killed a man in the OT for compromising the way the ark was carried. How much more if we play around the issue of marriage by adding civil unions? This is the reason why we have such compromise in churches across the world today. Fundamentalists were "too strict", so Neo-Evangelicals arose. 20-30 years later they became the "young evangelicals" and, in four short years after in 1978, they coined themselves the "worldly evangelicals". Yes, the early neo-evangelicals may have made small compromises to see some saved, but look at where we are today with the compromise in our churches. The illustration is just an example of how a small compromise can develop into a huge falling away.

      So, all in all, I do not support and cannot support civil unions. There is marriage according to what God said, and that is that. Civil unions are, in my opinion, a compromise with the enemy for a small interim period. A compromise that would have profound, negative effects on many Christians and lost individuals.
      That's not a valid point. There are all kinds of sexual unions that happen against the Word of God. Heterosexual, homosexual... all kinds of stuff. The only one that's recognized and blessed by God is a monogamous heterosexual marriage. Everything else is sin.

      It is an exclusive union and it is set a part from all the others. It's troubling that you would consider equality in the law of a nation the same thing as what God calls a marriage.

      If the people want to go down this road it is the choice of the nation.

      It is a sad one but that's where we're at. If you want to get mad about that, about how we've come to this as a society I've already laid out a decent list for you upthread regarding who you should be mad at.

      But it is very much a separate ordeal from our faith and while we still have that right, we should fight tooth and nail for what our Bible has to say with regards to what a marriage is and what it defines as a marriage.

      But if Christians consider homosexual equality in the law of a nation as synonymous with marriage as defined in the Bible, we're done. I mean if that's a popular opinion we've already lost.

      Why are you going to let secular lawmakers and homosexual activists define what our Bible says? What the law of the land says and what is true do not always square.

      But I imagine if some kind of homosexual 'marriage' law passes and it is indeed defined as a 'marriage', many devout Christians are going to find that out first hand.

      Some may have to choose between the law of the land or God's Word when pressed on the issue of having to do a service for a homosexual couple.

      That's just stupid when right now we can still oppose this on factual ground, and preserve what our Bible defines as a marriage.

      Because if they'll sue over cakes they'll sue over marriage and make a stink over the definition according to the law VS the Bible. And if you let them control the language as it so appears here, they win.

      They can have equality in the law. What they do is their business. They're not Christians. They're not our problem beyond reaching an olive branch out to them. Their fate is up to them and God is abundantly clear on what was, what is, and what will be.

      That said, people who are not Christians do not get to define what our Bible says. They're ignorant of what it has to say at best or intentionally malicious in trying to reinterpret and hijack the definition of marriage.

      Both apply depending on the people. As Christians, we need to make a stand and defend what it means before we lose even more.

      America isn't what it used to be. There are Christians. There are Americans. There are Christians who are also Americans. But there is no Christian America.

      Put your faith first.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Batman View Post
        No surrender, no apologies, no compromise, no alternatives..............Bible believing, born-again, obedient Christians should NOT accept gay marriage or advocate it being accepted by our government or anyone else. Right is never wrong and sin is always sin.
        I agree, we should not accept it or advocate it. Gay marriage. I think that TimK's point though was that it IS here, and people ARE accepting of it. And so let's not corrupt the Biblical covenant of marriage which was ordained by God between a man and a woman. Give it some other term so as not to corrupt marriage as it was defined in the Bible, and give them the same legal rights married couples have (as far as the tax ramifications or if someone were to die, the benefits spouses would have to the deceased's worldly belongings). But call it something else. Personally, I agree with that.

        Jesus Christ was not Muhammad. We are not ISIS. We are not about no alternatives, do what we say or die. Jesus believed in giving people a choice, and I do too. God could have forced each and every one of us to choose Him, but He did not. Jesus didn't say convert and believe in me or I'm going to chop your head off. In that respect, Jesus tolerated, and still does tolerate, sin. Thank goodness He does, because if not each and every one of us would be lost beyond hope with no Savior.

        Hate the sin, not the sinner. Treat ALL with love, in fairness, and with respect, no matter what they choose to do or to believe. Judgement is coming for them, and it is for God to dole out, not us. And God wants to give each one of us every chance to repent and turn to Him, He gives us this option up until death. I think that we should do the same as God would want us to. Just because it exists does not mean we have to accept it, the sin. The people however, are people, sinners, just like you and me. Only difference is they haven't accepted the grace and forgiveness Jesus Christ made it possible for us to have.

        I don't accept or advocate gay marriage. But I believe all humans have rights and should be treated equally. And the way to show the love of Jesus is not by condemning and judging. It's by showing kindness and love, just as Jesus did for us. And like Jesus said about the woman adulterer, 'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone', just stop! And think for one moment about yourself, about all the manner of sin you have most definitely committed. It's no different than the sin of homosexuality. As said above, sin is sin. Not one of us can say we are better than they are. We aren't better, we are just forgiven.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TimothyK View Post
          We're living in an Age of Grace where God is calling out to all of the world to come to Him, to repent and be saved because a day of judgment is coming.

          That call is also for the homosexual offender. Judgment is coming, but what is offered right now in this dispensation is mercy. Forgiveness and reconciliation with God by the finished work of Jesus Christ. Repent.

          Unless of course you refuse to recognize there is a problem, if you think you're perfectly fine, proud of yourself even... I don't suppose much can change your mind, can it? Because that is what God will require. A change of mind. Repentance.

          You're not fine. You have a big problem and it's nothing to be proud of.

          But it's understandable. Only ignorant and/or hypocritical people can criticize those who struggle with homosexual feelings as though they might be a perfect virgin.

          If you've ever struggled with sexual sin of any kind, you have no moral high ground to look down your nose at those who struggle with homosexuality.

          To the struggling and unsure homosexual:
          Your sin is no greater than any other sexual sin. Your sin is no greater or worse than the heterosexual who struggles with sexual sin. All people have a weakness or are especially susceptible to one sin or another.

          Many people have several. Homosexual desires are one among many. There is nothing new under the sun. Sexual sin is especially heavy to deal with because of how we're wired as human beings.

          Sin corrupts what is supposed to be a wonderful thing about us. God was patient in the past and God is patient now.

          God can help you and God can forgive you of this. God is no more angry with the homosexual offender than He is the heterosexual adulterer. Might as well be the same thing. What God is searching for is a contrite and repentant heart.

          Will you seek Him and repent? Or won't you? That's up to you. But if you will seek Jesus Christ and repent, God Himself swears He will not turn you away.



          So you would suffer to risk pulling up the wheat with the tares in your effort to eliminate the tares?

          It's not about appeasement or compromise, and certainly not surrender or apology. It's about picking your fights. When you go to battle, do you allow the enemy the high ground and take the field downwind for yourself?

          If you approach it from this angle, you will not win and the law will change the definition of marriage no matter how you feel about it. At this point in time the definition of marriage is what needs to be defended.

          I'm not saying to apologize, to compromise, or surrender. I'm saying to win this particular fight, or all else is in vain. Homosexuals are going to get together no matter what.

          It's already been happening and is approved of in several places in America already.

          That can be as something separate from our faith or you can permit the secular court to tell you what our Bible says. I myself would not suffer the later.

          That's something we need to fight for, not what unrepentant homosexuals do with themselves. It's not our problem. They can have equality in the law. They can't tell us what our Bible says though.

          Very much agree!

          Comment


          • Adding comments in-line:

            We're living in an Age of Grace where God is calling out to all of the world to come to Him, to repent and be saved because a day of judgment is coming. (Agreed all should heed this)

            That call is also for the homosexual offender. Judgment is coming, but what is offered right now in this dispensation is mercy. Forgiveness and reconciliation with God by the finished work of Jesus Christ. Repent. (Agreed all should heed this)

            Unless of course you refuse to recognize there is a problem, if you think you're perfectly fine, proud of yourself even... I don't suppose much can change your mind, can it? Because that is what God will require. A change of mind. Repentance. (Not sure who your addressing, but no-one outside of Christ is perfect, we all fall short of the glory of God)

            You're not fine. You have a big problem and it's nothing to be proud of. (Again who are you addressing here? This covers all unrepentant/unsaved individuals)

            But it's understandable. Only ignorant and/or hypocritical people can criticize those who struggle with homosexual feelings as though they might be a perfect virgin. (Who are you tossing the sarcasm out at Tim? Are you perfect? We want to know are you?) - In your struggles to compromise, to appease the homosexuals in your mind and with your political beliefs, you miss the whole point. 1) We are not perfect 2) We KNOW what the Bible says about homosexuality, if you wish I will post every verse for you (try Leviticus and Romans to start) 3) We don't place ourselves above homosexuals, we do not continue to live in sin when it is identified in our lives 4) We do not agree with the homosexual agenda, on the street or in the courts 5) Placing into law, same sex marriage or civil unions not only legalizes sin, it allows those who go forth with the marriage/union a legal agreement to "live in sin", living in sin without repentance leads to death 6) Homosexuals that have not been unionized/married still have the simple option to choose God and opt-out of living in that continuous sin, as opposed to the tougher option of a Divorce 7) We will not support or tolerate the lifestyle, neither will we yoke ourselves to it. We all have a struggle at times with sin(s), but as Christians we know the answer. Let the gays go on with their lifestyle, its their choice, but as a Christian Man I do not have to condone it. I will pray for them and I do, but I will not knowingly associate myself with that lifestyle, I will not tolerate it. I will not vote for those who advocate it as "ok".

            If you've ever struggled with sexual sin of any kind, you have no moral high ground to look down your nose at those who struggle with homosexuality. (this applies to anyone who has ever sinned. Who's looking down Tim, are you assuming? Separating ourselves from the gay lifestyle is not much different that separating ourselves from prostitutes. Why is that such a problem to you?)

            To the struggling and unsure homosexual:
            Your sin is no greater than any other sexual sin. Your sin is no greater or worse than the heterosexual who struggles with sexual sin. All people have a weakness or are especially susceptible to one sin or another.

            Many people have several. Homosexual desires are one among many. There is nothing new under the sun. Sexual sin is especially heavy to deal with because of how we're wired as human beings.

            Sin corrupts what is supposed to be a wonderful thing about us. God was patient in the past and God is patient now.

            God can help you and God can forgive you of this. God is no more angry with the homosexual offender than He is the heterosexual adulterer. Might as well be the same thing. What God is searching for is a contrite and repentant heart.

            Will you seek Him and repent? Or won't you? That's up to you. But if you will seek Jesus Christ and repent, God Himself swears He will not turn you away.



            So you would suffer to risk pulling up the wheat with the tares in your effort to eliminate the tares?

            It's not about appeasement or compromise, and certainly not surrender or apology. It's about picking your fights. When you go to battle, do you allow the enemy the high ground and take the field downwind for yourself?

            If you approach it from this angle, you will not win and the law will change the definition of marriage no matter how you feel about it. At this point in time the definition of marriage is what needs to be defended.

            I'm not saying to apologize, to compromise, or surrender. I'm saying to win this particular fight, or all else is in vain. Homosexuals are going to get together no matter what.

            It's already been happening and is approved of in several places in America already.

            That can be as something separate from our faith or you can permit the secular court to tell you what our Bible says. I myself would not suffer the later.

            That's something we need to fight for, not what unrepentant homosexuals do with themselves. It's not our problem. They can have equality in the law. They can't tell us what our Bible says though.

            I that all homosexuals see the light, know the word, believe the word and take action on the word... In Christs name amen!
            The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.... Living for Jesus - Listening for the Trumpet

            :snoopy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by In Christ View Post
              Adding comments in-line:




              I that all homosexuals see the light, know the word, believe the word and take action on the word... In Christs name amen!
              Agree with you In Christ..... Can only shake my head at parts of what Tim is saying. I'll leave it at that for now.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Slappi View Post
                Agree with you In Christ..... Can only shake my head at parts of what Tim is saying. I'll leave it at that for now.
                Thanks Slappi

                This is a touchy subject to many, while I agree we should not allow the definition of marriage being between "one man and one woman" to be changed, as Christians we should also do our part to ensure that our current and future elected politicians do not attempt to force law that goes against God's word upon us. We will probably lose that battle, but need to stand our ground. When the alternative lifestyle folk shove it down our throats as being legal, we need to agree with them from Man's perspective, but not from God's. The alternative lifestyle folk have a right to choose as human beings, we cannot stand in their way in that regard. But we can continue to stand strong for God.

                I know there are many Christians on this site who feel this way, and God bless them all!!
                The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.... Living for Jesus - Listening for the Trumpet

                :snoopy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TimothyK View Post
                  That's not a valid point. There are all kinds of sexual unions that happen against the Word of God. Heterosexual, homosexual... all kinds of stuff. The only one that's recognized and blessed by God is a monogamous heterosexual marriage. Everything else is sin.

                  It is an exclusive union and it is set a part from all the others. It's troubling that you would consider equality in the law of a nation the same thing as what God calls a marriage.

                  If the people want to go down this road it is the choice of the nation.

                  It is a sad one but that's where we're at. If you want to get mad about that, about how we've come to this as a society I've already laid out a decent list for you upthread regarding who you should be mad at.

                  But it is very much a separate ordeal from our faith and while we still have that right, we should fight tooth and nail for what our Bible has to say with regards to what a marriage is and what it defines as a marriage.

                  But if Christians consider homosexual equality in the law of a nation as synonymous with marriage as defined in the Bible, we're done. I mean if that's a popular opinion we've already lost.

                  Why are you going to let secular lawmakers and homosexual activists define what our Bible says? What the law of the land says and what is true do not always square.

                  But I imagine if some kind of homosexual 'marriage' law passes and it is indeed defined as a 'marriage', many devout Christians are going to find that out first hand.

                  Some may have to choose between the law of the land or God's Word when pressed on the issue of having to do a service for a homosexual couple.

                  That's just stupid when right now we can still oppose this on factual ground, and preserve what our Bible defines as a marriage.

                  Because if they'll sue over cakes they'll sue over marriage and make a stink over the definition according to the law VS the Bible. And if you let them control the language as it so appears here, they win.

                  They can have equality in the law. What they do is their business. They're not Christians. They're not our problem beyond reaching an olive branch out to them. Their fate is up to them and God is abundantly clear on what was, what is, and what will be.

                  That said, people who are not Christians do not get to define what our Bible says. They're ignorant of what it has to say at best or intentionally malicious in trying to reinterpret and hijack the definition of marriage.

                  Both apply depending on the people. As Christians, we need to make a stand and defend what it means before we lose even more.

                  America isn't what it used to be. There are Christians. There are Americans. There are Christians who are also Americans. But there is no Christian America.

                  Put your faith first.
                  I'm not sure where you're getting that I was angry, but I certainly it wasn't. I'm giving my opinion on this. I'm not sure if you're trying to take the Daniel route on this and find an alternate way to appease "the king" by eating vegetables only, but that isn't the same case we have here at all.

                  I'm also not sure where you see that I said I consider equality of the law with that of the Word of God. I don't and I never did, yet to compromise with homosexuals is against what I believe. What you're suggesting is compromise, in my eyes: "we can't stop the homosexuals from one day getting married, so let's appease them for now by giving them everything we have, but not calling it marriage". Just because civil unions happen, does not mean they are biblical and a good, alternate route we as Christians should offer. Again, there is marriage or nothing; and yes, everything else is sin if it's not heterosexual marriage.

                  I'm not going to allow secularists to define my Bible, nor am I going to allow them to compromise my faith by suggesting alternative actions to appease sin. If you truly believe homosexuals will be happy with a so called "civil union", you're wrong. They won't be happy until they have, what they believe, is "marriage". Appeasing an unGodly Union in the interim will only have profound, negative affects on the church, struggling Christians, and the lost as a whole. It sends the wrong message that we, as Christians, can compromise with sin so everyone wins. This is not a battle where everyone can win. The homosexuals WILL one day win this battle (sadly), but Christ coming back will win the war.

                  Again, I'll ask the question. What about polygamous civil unions? Or beastial civil unions? Can we advocate those kinds of civil unions? If you're a Christian stating homosexual civil unions are fine, you can't have anything against these types either, right?

                  What about heterosexual civil unions? I mean, who needs marriage anymore if we can just have civil unions everywhere? These are basically marriages (all of the benefits), except without the messy term "marriage"... And hey, since it's not marriage, they have the opportunity to cheat on their partner whenever they want and it won't be seen as adulterous because they're not really married. No worries about being life-long partners, no messy divorces, no reason to stay if anything it's getting sour. You can't have divorce unless their is marriage.

                  Tim, I'm not angry at all. If you believe we can have same sex civil unions as an alternative and believe God would be pleased that we would suggest such an alternative, that is your ground you stand on. I, personally, do not believe that and I wanted to say as such. Christians will always be fighting battles regarding the Word of God, but we must strive to be like Daniel and find alternatives (when those alternatives are biblical: eating vegetables), but also like Moses who denied to compromise with Pharaoh. There is a fine line.

                  In this case, you and I will just have to agree to disagree, agreeably lol.

                  Comment


                  • On another note, what is to stop Christians from pursuing such civil unions? What do pastors say when a Christian couple tells him they want to do a "trial run" before getting married and tying the knot. Do we tell them it's sin and they can't engage in that type of activity? Unless of course they are not engaging in marital activities together, but then what's the point? Basically, they would be getting all marriage benefits we have, while really only dating. How can we tell them it's sinful if we shook hands with the world on it as a viable alternative?

                    In my opinion, civil unions aren't a viable alternative, it's merely opening Pandora's box into a host of other issues that will arise. This issue is black and white, there is no gray area for which we can settle on with the world.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Nickz View Post
                      On another note, what is to stop Christians from pursuing such civil unions? What do pastors say when a Christian couple tells him they want to do a "trial run" before getting married and tying the knot. Do we tell them it's sin and they can't engage in that type of activity? Unless of course they are not engaging in marital activities together, but then what's the point? Basically, they would be getting all marriage benefits we have, while really only dating. How can we tell them it's sinful if we shook hands with the world on it as a viable alternative?

                      In my opinion, civil unions aren't a viable alternative, it's merely opening Pandora's box into a host of other issues that will arise. This issue is black and white, there is no gray area for which we can settle on with the world.
                      I agree with you as well Nickz.

                      Comment


                      • In the first half of my post there, the context of the discussion is toward any potential homosexual lurkers. If that was unclear to you it's understandable. That's on me. Forgive me for any confusion in that regard.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        Who are you tossing the sarcasm out at Tim?
                        No sarcasm. Only the ignorant and/or hypocritical can criticize those who struggle with homosexual feelings. If you're like most human beings, you have a sex drive and it isn't always on the right side of God and His will.

                        The bar is pretty high up there since even our inner thought life is laid bare before God.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        Are you perfect? We want to know are you?
                        No sir. Just dust and ashes. I'm saved by grace through faith by the blood of Jesus Christ, and on this and only this alone can I dare to approach the throne of God offering praise and thanksgiving.

                        I'm an unworthy wretch, yet God saw fit to save me. Even so, the Creator of Heaven and Earth loves me so very much. Stupid and foolish as I am, God considers my prayers and even the things I need but did not think to mention.

                        He forgives me even for the stupid things I do and ask, He protects me from me, and makes me able to stand even when I should certainly fall. My Lord and Savior provides for me in ways I'll probably never even realize this side of Heaven.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        In your struggles to compromise, to appease the homosexuals in your mind and with your political beliefs, you miss the whole point.
                        You haven't considered a word I've said beyond what you've decided about me, have you?

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        1) We are not perfect
                        And if Christians aren't perfect, what do you expect of unsaved sinners?

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        2) We KNOW what the Bible says about homosexuality, if you wish I will post every verse for you (try Leviticus and Romans to start)
                        Yes, I know. Do you understand the context of Leviticus VS Romans? The Book of Leviticus and the Epistle to the Romans are addressing two very different audiences.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        3) We don't place ourselves above homosexuals, we do not continue to live in sin when it is identified in our lives
                        ???
                        I'm sorry... what? I get you on the later bit, but how does that tie into the first part you wrote?

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        4) We do not agree with the homosexual agenda, on the street or in the courts
                        That's correct, yes.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        5) Placing into law, same sex marriage or civil unions not only legalizes sin, it allows those who go forth with the marriage/union a legal agreement to "live in sin", living in sin without repentance leads to death
                        And that's up to them.

                        Whether the law gives them the right to do it or not is irrelevant to that end. They're going to do what they're going to do.

                        Since it is now becoming a legal issue thanks to the moral failure of our nation, we as Christians need now to defend the definition of marriage according to our Bible or have it revised by heathens.

                        We can still do that. We should.

                        It is better to give homosexuals legal standing which doesn't mean anything to us as Christians, rather than to surrender our Bible to legal redefinition by unbelievers.

                        What they should want in being a monogamous homosexual couple is not a marriage. Not according to the Christian faith (and dozens of other faiths). Don't let them define it that way.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        6) Homosexuals that have not been unionized/married still have the simple option to choose God and opt-out of living in that continuous sin, as opposed to the tougher option of a Divorce
                        Our choices have consequences. Picking God isn't always easy, especially if you mire yourself deep in sin. Is Christ worth a divorce in this scenario?

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        7) We will not support or tolerate the lifestyle, neither will we yoke ourselves to it.
                        I'm with you so far.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        We all have a struggle at times with sin(s), but as Christians we know the answer.
                        Correct.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        Let the gays go on with their lifestyle, its their choice, but as a Christian Man I do not have to condone it.
                        Still with you.

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        I will pray for them and I do, but I will not knowingly associate myself with that lifestyle, I will not tolerate it.
                        Okay!

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        I will not vote for those who advocate it as "ok".
                        Never say never. Your vote (or non-vote) leaves an impact. Scenario: Republican candidate, supports right to life for children and homosexual equality in the law.

                        Democratic candidate, supports abortion/womens right to choose, does not support homosexual equality within the law. Which do you vote for?

                        The republican? The democrat? Neither? Some independent guy? A write-in perhaps? Your vote (or non-vote) will have an impact on the future of this country.

                        And I'll tell you again, none of the candidates are going to be Christians. At least not very sound or devout Christians. Are you going to sit out on that account?

                        Originally posted by In Christ View Post
                        I that all homosexuals see the light, know the word, believe the word and take action on the word... In Christs name amen!
                        From your lips to God's ears.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Nickz View Post
                          I'm not sure where you're getting that I was angry, but I certainly it wasn't. I'm giving my opinion on this. I'm not sure if you're trying to take the Daniel route on this and find an alternate way to appease "the king" by eating vegetables only, but that isn't the same case we have here at all.
                          I never said you were angry Nick. I said if you wanted to be mad at someone over the sad state of our society, I made a little list for the occasion up thread.

                          I'll consider addressing the rest of your post at some point later. Though I hope you might consider reading what I've already written.

                          I'm flattered you want to compare me to a great Biblical figure like Daniel, but I'm not Daniel nor am I trying to appease any "king" other than King Jesus Christ.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TimothyK View Post
                            I never said you were angry Nick. I said if you wanted to be mad at someone over the sad state of our society, I made a little list for the occasion up thread.

                            I'll consider addressing the rest of your post at some point later. Though I hope you might consider reading what I've already written.

                            I'm flattered you want to compare me to a great Biblical figure like Daniel, but I'm not Daniel nor am I trying to appease any "king" other than King Jesus Christ.
                            I understand. I'm not mad at anyone over the state of our society. (Nor am I implying right now that you're saying I am). Do I wish things were different and we still had a God-fearing nation? Of course! But I know that's not the case and I'm praying through this turmoil that lines will be drawn and many will choose Christ over the world.

                            I have read your arguments for the issue and I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with it. Again, we will just have to agree to disagree on this issue, agreeably. Civil unions are not a viable option, in my opinion. Legal standing, in this case, does mean something to Christians because it affects other Christians. It opens up channels and opportunities to sin that should never be opened. Christians WILL take civil unions as an opportunity to test the waters. It will be a major stumbling block in the church, in my opinion. We already have hoards flocking to seeker driven churches where they can hear what their itching ears want to hear, what happens when they are told they don't have to get married right away, but "test the waters in a civil union". This is not a case of only protecting marriage, but protecting fellow believers from the guiles of the devil and world. This is not only a case of appeasement according to law, but how this will affect the mindset of Christians as a whole.

                            Edit: and what happens when scores of Christians claim homosexual civil unions are ok? How much longer until those same Christians advocate for full on marriage? It will happen. "They already in a civil union, just let them get married! You agreed that civil unions are okay, what's the difference?" Then we will move from defending the faith, to having to defend our decisions of accepting civil unions as well as the Word. Again, this issue is black and white, there are no gray areas. There are two sides of the fence, either pro-homosexual marriage or anti-homosexual marriage. Civil unions will only be the crack which blows open the flood gates; confusing the minds of the church and sinners alike. Id rather take a stand against it now with the Christians who stand for truth, than confuse our children one day with the issue.

                            We're on the same team, and I appreciate your insight into this subject. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day!

                            Comment


                            • This was good spirited debate on a touchy subject, I appreciate the thread. God Bless all of you!

                              Nick - Best of luck in seminary!!
                              The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.... Living for Jesus - Listening for the Trumpet

                              :snoopy

                              Comment


                              • Does anyone think it's not marriage they are really after?
                                Who (read between the lines) will marry them?
                                The dogs are barking, someone is knocking on the door...

                                Please pray for Lindsey's salvation

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X