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    Health Care Law Signals US Empire Decline

    We all know there's going to be a change, the surprise will be the pace of that change," Murrin said, noting that "all empires when they decline they underestimate their challengers."

  • #2
    We are truly in dire times. The different isms have similar results in their application in that they place power into the hands of a select few. Lord Acton was very correct when stating that "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Our current leaders, or at least many of them, subscribe to Marxism. How many high appointees or Czars have been rumored or outed as admirers of Mao or Lenin? How many have backgrounds steeped in Marxism with extreme revolutionary slants? The problem with wondering "when we will know when socialism etc has arrived" is that by then it will be too late. Their modus operandi has been to move the country gradually, incrementally, towards Marxism. While we may be in a state of socialism now, the end state is and always will be Marxism which = absolute power for them.

    All we can do is fight the good fight, putting His Glory before ours, and trusting in our Heavenly Father completely.


    • #3

      In Psalm 11:3, the question is asked, "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" Of course, when the foundations are destroyed, the righteous are made a prey of the wicked. Consequently, the very purpose of government is the protection of the righteous or law abiding. In other words, Government is ordained by God as a mechanical remedy against evil (cf. Romans 13:1-7). Thomas Jefferson clearly understood this principle, and so must we if we are to keep the "unalienable rights" endowed us by "our Creator." Jesus Christ is sovereign of the universe. Consequently, His law is above all laws and all men everywhere are subject to His authority. Many earthly authorities have not understood this. Consequently, they have not heeded the wise counsel of the psalmist, who said: "Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish in the way" (Psalm 2:11,12).

      Proverbs 14:34, "Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people."

      The reproach (i.e., disgrace and shame) openly being manifested in America today is indicative of the fact that we are quickly becoming a nation without God. Frankly, what this means is that the continued existence of this country is at stake. It may be that God usually judges individuals at the end of time, but the Bible clearly teaches that He judges nations in time. In Romans 1, the apostle Paul gives the four step decline in the history of the nation that forgets God:

      A nation rejects God,

      it turns to false religion,

      it becomes bogged down in immorality and violence,

      and then God judges it.
      Consequently, a nation without God is a nation in serious trouble.


      • #4
        The doctrine of the wrath of God is an incentive for the Christian to live a holy life. Our desire should be to please God (2 Corinthians 5:9), and this will be done as we pursue holiness and flee from sin:

        3 But do not let immorality or any impurity or greed even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them (Ephesians 5:3-7).

        14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 17 And if you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each man’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay upon earth; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, he blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:14-19).

        10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. 14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless (2 Peter 3:10-14).

        The wrath of God is a reminder of the holiness of God and a measure of God’s hatred of sin. God’s wrath is proportionate to the unrighteousness which provokes it. The immensity of God’s wrath toward sin is an indication of His holy hatred of sin. We should hate it as well.


        • #5


          • #6
            The ninth stage moves from moral decay to dependence. And the tenth and last stage moves from dependence to bondage.
            we have this with obama
            i still say he will be our first dictator


            • #7

              Society's Slide Into Sexual Immorality
              Other sources also warn of the devastating effects of moral turpitude. The record of history is clear. English anthropologist J.D. Unwin extensively studied 86 societies through 5,000 years of history. After his death in 1936 the results of his research were published under the title " Hopousia: The Sexual and Economic Foundations of a New Society ."

              Bluntly speaking, Unwin's point was that nations gain prominence when they keep their sexual drives in check both before and after marriage. They remain strong as long as societal and marital bonds are strong. When those barriers fall, a society's days are numbered. As Unwin put it, he knew of "no exception to these rules."

              Does any nation truly live by a moral standard that pleases God? Consider the observation of Psalm 14:2-3 [2] The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
              [3] They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

              See All...: "The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one."

              History shows that wayward nations have suffered punishment for their conduct. God often allows the natural consequences of sin to overtake a people. "Your own wickedness will correct you, and your backslidings will reprove you," He warns (Jeremiah 2:19Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

              Historians Will and Ariel Durant quoted Joseph de Maistre in their book The Lessons of History : "There is no significant example in history, before our time, of a society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion"

              Syndicated columnist and author Georgie Ann Geyer wrote: "I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible to have a moral community or nations without faith in God, because without it everything comes down to 'me,' and 'me' alone is meaningless."

              She further warned: "Today Americans have stopped acting in terms of their own moral, ethical religious beliefs and principles. They stopped acting on what they knew was right—and the 'me' has become the measure of everything. However, moral societies are the only ones that work. If anyone thinks there is not a direct and inviolable relationship between personal integrity in a society and that society's prosperity, that person has simply not studied history . . . Great moral societies, built upon faith in God, honor, trust and the law blossom . . ." (ibid.)

              Some 160 years ago the French historian Alexis de Tocqueville wrote that "America is great because America is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great" (Federer, p. 205).

              The message of the prophets
              The message of the biblical prophets was similar to the warnings of more recent social critics: Societies that cast aside their moral underpinnings will ultimately end up on the scrap heap of history. This is true of any and every nation, even of a powerful country with enormous national resilience like the United States.

              We need only look at the collapse of such great powers as Assyria, and Babylon to see that a nation's pre-eminence can vanish into history.

              The prophets of old warned the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, along with many other nations of their period, that oblivion would befall those countries that sought their own agenda rather than God's, and that refused to allow their Creator to fashion and shape their national life. A national obsession with sex, leading to a searing of moral consciousness, would lead to decline and fall.


              • #8
                the original title to my thread once was something about when NATIONS die
                then it was changed.. it still should be about nations

                The Rise & Fall of Civilization



                Perhaps the definitive work on the rise and fall of civilizations, was published in 1934 by Oxford anthropologist J.D. Unwin.

                In Sex and Culture, Unwin studied 86 human civilizations ranging from tiny South Sea island principalities to mighty Rome. He found that a society’s destiny is linked inseparably to the limits it imposes on sexual expression and that those sexual constraints correlate directly to its theological sophistication and religious commitment.

                .” Monogamous civilizations require men to choose either lifelong celibacy or the responsibilities of a husband: fidelity, breadwinning, and fatherhood. Most men choose to marry, to their good fortune, because married men tend to be healthier, happier, and more productive than bachelors.

                Those committed husbands create stable marriages, which offer the greatest opportunity for raising healthy, productive children who can keep a society strong and growing. Likewise, the great economist Joseph Schumpeter attributes the success of capitalism not to the entrepreneur’s lust for money or status, but to his love of family. To Schumpeter, the central pillar of any healthy civilization is the self-sacrificing married man who doesn’t spend his income on his pleasures, but prefers “to work and save primarily for his wife and children.”

                And in Family and Civilization, Harvard historian Carle Zimmerman concludes that “the creative periods in civilization have been based upon” the strongest form of family, which he terms the “domestic” type: “The domestic family affords a comparatively stable social structure and yet frees the individual sufficiently from family influence to perform the creative work necessary for a great civilization.” If devotion to God, a Pauline moral code, and strong marriages and families are the key to cultural success, then what causes civilizations to decline?

                Zimmerman warns of “periods of family decay in which civilization is suffering internally from the lack of basic belief in the forces which make it work.” Unwin’s explanation would be that if people lose their faith in God, they tend to lose their motivation to live by the strict moral code. In This Present Age, sociologist Robert Nisbet writes, “What sociologists are prone to call social disintegration is really nothing more than the spectacle of a rising number of individuals playing fast and loose with other individuals in relationships of trust and responsibility.” Moral standards begin to erode when a society’s members chafe at the discipline imposed by absolute monogamy and begin to gratify their personal impulses without regard for the consequences inflicted on others.

                In other words, in an amoral, hedonistic society, you can’t trust the people you need to trust, not even your spouse. Moreover, if people can make and break relationships at will, with no legal repercussions or social stigma, they are much more likely to abandon their marriages—at their children’s expense—when the going gets tough. Husbands with roving eyes are much more likely to trade in their wives for new models.

                Thus, the founder of Harvard’s sociology department, Pitirim Sorokin, warned that if individualistic selfishness and self-seeking are not checked, a society will lapse into a state of “sexual anarchy.” In The American Sex Revolution,

                Sorokin writes that “both man and society are degraded” as a culture becomes “sexually obsessed:”


                • #9
                  Carl Wilson notes that decadent cultures display seven typical characteristics: Men reject spiritual and moral development as the leaders of families; men begin to neglect their families in search of material gain; men begin to engage in adulterous relationships or homosexual sex; women begin to devalue the role of motherhood and homemaker; husbands and wives begin to compete with each other and families disintegrate; selfish individualism fragments society into warring factions; and men and women lose faith in God and reject all authority over their lives. Soon, moral anarchy reigns. When the family collapses, the society soon follows.


                  Wilson noted that history reveals that nations decline and eventually die when sexual immorality becomes rampant and the traditional family is discarded in favor of group sex, homosexuality, infidelity, and unrestrained sexual hedonism.

                  He pointed to the writings of British anthropologist J. D. Unwin, whose 1934 book, Sex and Culture, chronicled the historical decline of numerous cultures. Unwin studied 86 different cultures throughout history and discovered a surprising fact: No nation that rejected monogamy in marriage and pre-marital sexual chastity lasted longer than a generation after it embraced sexual hedonism. Unwin stated it this way, "In human records there is no instance of a society retaining its energy after a complete new generation has inherited a tradition which does not insist on prenuptial and postnuptial continence."


                  • #10
                    Romans 1:

                    King James Version (KJV)

                    22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

                    23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

                    24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

                    25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

                    26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

                    27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

                    28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

                    29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

                    30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

                    31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

                    32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


                    • #11
                      On September 17, 1787, at the conclusion of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Delegate James Wilson, on behalf of his ailing colleague from Pennsylvania, Benjamin Franklin, read aloud Franklin’s speech to the convention in favor of adopting the Constitution. Among other things, Franklin said that the Constitution “is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become corrupt as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.…”

                      In 1934-1954, Toynbee's ten-volume A Study of History came out in three separate installments. He followed Oswald Spengler in taking a comparative topical approach to independent civilizations. Toynbee's said they displayed striking parallels in their origin, growth, and decay. Toynbee rejected Spengler's biological model of civilizations as organisms with a typical life span of 1,000 years. Of the 21 civilizations Toynbee identified, sixteen were dead by 1940 and four of the remaining five were under severe pressure from the one named Western Christendom - or simply The West. He explained breakdowns of civilizations as a failure of creative power in the creative minority, which henceforth becomes a merely 'dominant' minority; that is followed by an answering withdrawal of allegiance and mimesis on the part of the majority; finally there is a consequent loss of social unity in the society as a whole.[7] Toynbee explained decline as due to their moral failure. Many readers, especially in America, rejoiced in his implication (in vols. 1-6) that only a return to some form of Christianity could halt the breakdown of western civilization which began with the Reformation.

                      Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now.

                      Arnold J. Toynbee

                      About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier: 'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government' 'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury' 'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship' 'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years' 'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence -- back to bondage --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      lighthouseJanuary 17th, 2009, 09:32 AM - Finally, unbelief in God became more complete, parental authority diminished, and ethical and moral principles disappeared, affecting the economy and government. Thus, by internal weakness and fragmentation the societies came apart. There was no way to save them except by a dictator who arose from within or by barbarians who invaded from without. Although this is an ancient pattern of decline found in Greece and Rome, it is relevant today. Ideas have consequences, and false ideas can bring down a nation Much of the Old Testament records the history of the nation of Israel. It passed through these same stages and so will every country in the world. As Christians we must recognize that nations will rise and fall just as individuals will be born and die. Our civilization will not last indefinitely, but will eventually pass off the scene. Only God's Word endures forever. We should not put our trust in the things of this world for they are destined for destruction. Instead, we should put our faith in God and His word. To borrow again from Sir Winston's wise counsel at a previous time of global crisis, what happened on that day was not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning. It marks the end of the belief that what goes on in the hinterland of the world ---------- -in poor and backward countries with no economy to speak of and with no military power and with very little of what is elsewhere accepted as the essential basics of modern civilization--------- can be disregarded by all those large industrial nations who regularly get together at the summit meetings of the world in order to decide its future. The refrain we hear most often is: "It can't happen here ---------- America is different." But the reality is that civilized nations are not immortal; they are born and die just as individuals do. Although their longevity may exceed the average person's lifespan, we cannot escape history. And history teaches us that empires also die.

                      I sought for the greatness and genius of America in her commodious harbors and her ample rivers - and it was not there . . . in her fertile fields and boundless forests and it was not there . . . in her rich mines and her vast world commerc - and it was not there . . . in her democratic Congress and her matchless Constitution - and it vas not there. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great. Alexis de Tocqueville
                      Last edited by Steve53; February 27th, 2012, 09:50 AM.


                      • #12
                        mods please put back the orginal title which was
                        decline of a nation
                        please and thankyou

                        looks like one of you changed it again


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lighthouse View Post
                          mods please put back the orginal title which was
                          decline of a nation
                          please and thankyou

                          looks like one of you changed it again
                          Thread titles morph to fit the flowing body style of the posts and to key in search engines.

                          Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                 |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
                            Thread titles morph to fit the flowing body style of the posts and to key in search engines.

                            The mods are doing you a favor! And you get to keep your original title!

                            Thank you lighthouse for the resource!


                            • #15
                              by Henry Morris, Ph.D.

                              "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient." (Romans 1:28)

                              This is a terrifying verse, climaxing the awful indictment (in Romans 1:18-32) of God against a world in rebellion against its maker. This burning passage begins with Paul's declaration that God's wrath has been revealed against all those who "hold the truth"--or, more explicitly, "hold down or suppress the truth" in unrighteousness.

                              Then, in a rising crescendo of testimonies of wickedness and resulting condemnation, one fearful clause appears no less than three times: "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts. . . . For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections. . . . God gave them over to a reprobate mind" (vv. 24, 26, 28).

                              As terrible as such judgments seem, the provocations were infinitely worse. They "changed the glory of the uncorruptible God" into idols depicting His creatures (v. 23). They "changed the truth of God into a lie" and rejected Him as Creator (v. 25). They subjected Him to critical philosophical scrutiny, and chose not "to retain God in their knowledge" at all (implied in the Greek "did not like") (v. 28). Thus it was that our God of all grace finally had to give them up!

                              But the frightening thing is that this dark scene describes more than ancient paganism. Every verse is also a precise indictment of this present, evil "post-Christian" world, as we almost seem to be reading therein a documentary of the present age. What a picture it draws of modern evolutionary humanism in practice!