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Pre-trib/Pre-Mil, 2nd Amendment and the Florida shooting...

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  • Pre-trib/Pre-Mil, 2nd Amendment and the Florida shooting...

    This is a question that I think needs to be asked.... to our particular community of believers... pre-trib/pre-mil.
    I was wondering about Americans 2nd amendment rights vs. what we Pre-trib/Pre-Mil believers think, in light of the mass shooting in Florida.
    A little background first. This latest shooting and the one in the past at Sandy Hook really shook my wife up. She's a high school teacher that actually recognized one of these "troubled" kids and went to the school officials, who one day took him out of the school and told my wife she'd never have to worry about him again. After that, the teachers at her high school had a "all teacher and administrators meeting" and it was announced that if they see this boy coming to the school, they were to immediately call security. He was basically allowed to graduate early and they got him out of there. This boy was constantly looking at guns on his computer, had a flat affect about him. No friends, etc. He REALLY made my wife nervous.... and she's not prone to over reaction.
    The boy in this Florida shooting was expelled (the last I heard) and had been gone from the school for awhile before he came back and did this horrible thing that killed 17 people.
    Kind of, in a way.... similar to the boy my wife alerted authorities to. This happened to her during the 2016/2017 school year. My wife is also on edge because during the process of doing the paper work to get this boy investigated and/or out of her classroom, the boy saw that it was my wife that clued them in. So, she's a nervous wreck... always looking over her shoulder. And these school shootings REALLY affect her, because if this boy ever attempts anything like this, she 100% believes that she would be one of his targets. She really gets terrified about what would happen. Not being here for our kids.... our babies losing their mom. And also, she worries for our kids at their school.... what if, what if. You know what I'm sayin? She's of the mindset that people don't need these types of guns because of their huge potential for mass death. She's really brought to tears about it. I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP.
    Myself, I've always been on the conservative side of things. Strong gun rights advocate and all that. I need to keep my mouth shut I guess, because whenever she brings up whatever reason she thinks that some guns with their capabilities (large magazines, etc.) should be banned, I try to indicate why it might be a bad idea (I just start looking at the logical arguments and the political/legal ramifications). Note: she never said all guns should be banned, just some of them. Most of you have probably heard the typical arguments before. Anyway, it makes her really upset..... so I started trying to think harder about her train of thought and my own, and because of this, I wanted to ask you... my brothers and sisters in Christ, who also believe that our time here is really short, a few questions.
    I'm starting to see her argument with the added twist of my theological stand point of owning some of these weapons and I've come to wonder, "Why haven't I considered this angle before?" Not just the political earthly reasons..... my wife keyed me off on to this path of thinking, because of her intense, heartfelt reactions to all this and her personal experience.
    1. We here at least in this forum for the most part believe that Christ is returning VERY soon. We don't know when, but I feel that most of us here at RR believe it'll be within our lifetime.
    2. According to scripture, the times are going to get worse and worse. Evil is going to intensify... and it definitely is. This CANNOT be denied. I'm sure most all of you would agree.
    3. Despite the second amendment, from our point of view, would banning of high capacity magazines and AR-15 type weapons help at all? Should the 2nd amendment aspect of this even concern us? Why do I ask? That takes us to....
    4. I realize it won't stop them from getting them illegally and all that, and I think these mass shootings and school shootings are still going to occur, but would it help any? At all? Instead of 17 dead, would limiting magazine size for instance, maybe, just maybe help reduce it to 7 dead. Still horrible... but less. More alive people that will have another day to choose Christ, before we're whisked out of here.. Possibly? Just possibly? Maybe having those with violent prone mental illnesses could be better flagged so they can't buy them at least legally. Do you think it would help at all?
    5. And finally the BIG question..... being that we think Christ is going to return very shortly..... if we TRULY believe this.... TRULY..... should the second amendment really matter as much as potentially keeping more people alive so that they can hear about Christ? I realize there is a debate as to whether or not it would really help... but to my wife's mind, I think it would at least bring her a little peace.
    I believe Christ is coming soon..... like any second soon. Should I even care about the 2nd amendment at this point... to grasp at any straws that "might" save a few lives so that they can hear about Christ just one more time.
    Thoughts!
    Last edited by Scilent; February 16th, 2018, 01:17 AM. Reason: Better text flow
    Romans 8:28 <--- Favorite Verse, that brought me a lot of peace over the years.

  • #2
    Cain killed Able with a rock. It's not the guns, or the types of guns. It's a morality problem. Somebody intent on causing mass casualty events will find a way if guns aren't handy. https://youtu.be/_T-F_zfoDqI
    sigpic
    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


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    • #3
      Yes, I agree.... if they couldn't get a high capacity rifle, they would take a lesson from the Jihadi's playbook and simply use a car or truck during a street fair or something. But my underlying question remains for pre-mil/pre-trib Christians.... if we truly believe, because all the signs are around us, that Christ is soon to return.... should we still be all fired up protective of our gun rights and the 2nd amendment for those particular types of weapons? Again, my wife doesn't want to ban all guns... but she sees these high capacity, rapid firing weapons used over and over and Over and OVER again with these mass shootings. There's a reason these nut jobs choose them.

      I don't know if you've got a wife that's been potentially close to a situation like the one she's been through and seen the nervousness and fear and the tears in her eyes over something like this, but as her husband, I can't help but be protective of her and her emotional state. She's not a far left loon that wants to create a communist utopia, she's still in fear for her life and her student's lives after the student that was expelled last year from her school for the same kind of stuff (the signals) that the Florida kid did and expressed.
      Romans 8:28 <--- Favorite Verse, that brought me a lot of peace over the years.

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      • #4
        To answer your question directly, yes it's important that we preserve our 2nd Amendment. Our right to bear arms has already been infringed to varying degrees and that alone should be a clear indication that if it were possible to do so in this country, the plotting lefty political class would have already disarmed the people.

        How the above fits into the end times has not been revealed to us, but it's not hard to imagine that some form of gun control will be enacted and that will facilitate the Antichrist's rise to power after we're raptured.
        sigpic
        Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

        John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

        Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


        Comment


        • #5
          I am so sorry your wife has to live with this realization of the sick world we live in, especially on a day to day basis in her work place. In light of her experiences, her fear is certainly justified.
          With that said, banning AR-15s would probably do nothing to make a big difference. Then you would have to ban a 9mm Carbine, and other firearms with higher capacity magazines. It's a slippery slope to complete gun confiscation, which IS the goal of the left. They will not be satisfied until THEY are the only ones who are able to defend themselves, via armed bodyguards and fortresses.
          I do agree Uzi's, AR-15's, etc, are mass killing weapons, but there are countless ones in circulation at this very moment, and no way to "put the baby back in the birth canal" at this point. It's a no-win situation, but if we allow one type of firearm, magazine, or ammo to be banned, we know where that will ultimately end up. When that happens, the law abiding people will be the only ones unable to defend ourselves and our families.
          I think of the incredible killing machine in Chicago, and would bet most of those are committed with illegally purchased guns. That market is here to stay, so it's just the evil time we live in, and we have to adapt.
          Be it right or wrong, I feel much safer when I see the armed sheriff every Sunday am at our very small church.

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          • #6
            As soon as an Ar15 is banned, then the next weapon that fires several rounds will be banned, and so on until the only people with such weapons will be government and their agencies, and criminal/terrorist elements, those people will always have them and be able to get them.
            If you really want soft target schools to be protected, then do it, install cameras in all locations, have fully trained personnel that can deter or stop a threat, better yet can see a threat trying to enter the school. Not sure if it is true but I heard an Uber driver drove this kid to the school, with his gun case and all his gear. If that was me I would have been on the phone to 911, but that's me and I am very familiar with weapons and transport. Most people do not realize a shotgun with buckshot is more devastating at close range and has the ability to take out more people per round fired, so then you would have to ban shotguns, the banning will not stop. All the people you don't want to have these weapons will have them.
            John 10:27-30 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.

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            • #7
              I agree with others, further infringement on our right to bear arms isn't the answer. As a responsible gun owner (and I own an AR-15, along with 1000's of other responsible owners), I disagree with the thought that they are "mass killing weapons". They can be, in the wrong hands, but so can many other things as proven time and time again. It only takes a second to replace lower volume clips and a person with evil intentions can carry many at one time.

              I would like to see more people exercise (all) their rights in this country instead of letting the left radically transform this nation to fit their godless agenda. I personally feel safer knowing some will be armed in times of need (not just talking about police, military, private security, etc.) and most times when seconds matter, there are no responsible armed people around.

              As far as giving the lost even more time to maybe choose salvation, most of them are already hell bent on removing all that we stand for by any means at their disposal. Being able to identify and remove an imminent threat quickly will do more to give the lost time than some notion that if we limit how many bullets a person is allowed to fire or from what type of weapon.

              The fact that many of our youth are now so easily swayed into committing such evil atrocities is a sad sign of the time we live in.
              1 CORINTHIANS 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

              ROMANS 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
              For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

              Comment


              • #8
                Theoretically, if I were in your wife's position, I would feel better if I were trained how to use a gun and had one available to protect myself and my classroom. I would not trust at all in laws to prevent someone intent on murder from having any weapon.

                That's in theory. In reality, I don't have a handgun and have only ever done target shooting with a .22. So, and in light of the Lord's soon return or not, I ultimately think that I will go when the Lord says so. The real battle is giving over our fears, especially in relation to our loved ones, to Jesus. I have a lot of experience in this, as I've dealt with cancer for years now. I have a time bomb ticking inside, yet why have others I know, who were healthy, died before me? It's because God has not yet called me home. I have had to relinquish His timing, and His care for my family, completely to Him, over and over again. The Lord will help your dear wife to do that too.

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                • #9
                  The more gun control is thrust upon us, the less we'll be able to protect ourselves. Guns are not the problem. As the world sinks deeper and deeper into the morass of godlessness and everything that accompanies that, evil acts like this shooting will increase in frequency.
                  Tall Timbers, Imperfect but forgiven

                  3 trees

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                  • #10
                    Matthew 24:3-14
                    3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

                    4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

                    9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
                    John 10:27-30 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.

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                    • #11
                      Banning won't help anything except to make some people think they have done something good. I've been thinking about your questions all day and there's simply no good answer.

                      It's a grade-A mess. And it's spiritual in nature, not something a few rules or revocation of freedoms can fix. That's like going to a house fire and spraying down the street on the block around the house. Won't even touch the problem.

                      It's gotta be fixed one heart at a time, and since He Who knows the end from the beginning has not told us of any golden age of revival and widespread sanctified charity for our fellow man coming at the close of the Age of Grace, but in fact has said the opposite will be the case, I reckon that's how it's going to be. Most hearts don't want to be fixed anyway, because they are "fine" like they are and don't need any "god".

                      I'm afraid it's a terminal condition. Sin fully grown ends in death. That's like an immutable law. We are on a track moving toward a Meeting few are prepared to answer roll call in.

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                      • #12
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis

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                        • #13
                          Michigander, Good Find!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by logosone View Post
                            Michigander, Good Find!
                            x2
                            John 10:27-30 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I also tend to believe that if they are successful getting rid of the AR-15 rifles then they will be emboldened to go after the next type of gun that offends them Its like once they start they will go full force in disarming everyone~that is their ultimate goal ,as we know..

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