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How did an entire doctrine get built around 1 John 1:9?

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  • #31
    It would insult him because technically we'd be continually asking forgiveness we'd already previously obtained- thus, by that action, would say that we didn't believe He forgave us in the first place if a second, third and numerous subsequent coats of forgiveness needed to be applied to the same sins.

    Would it be insulting if I went out back and tried sacrificing an animal for my forgiveness?

    Did Christ restore us to fellowship with God at the Cross?

    (and thanks everyone for going with me on this in our dialog- I'm really just trying to test this implied doctrine of the 1 john 1:9 confession obsession and want to know if we're doing that because it's been merely ingrained in us by misappropriation, or it's because that is what the text is actually conveying. And if you can't tell, I'm definitely playing devil's advocate here toward the issue, but would really like to substantiate why we do it and if we should.)

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    • #32
      So let's sin all the more that grace may abound? Seems that dead argument was made.

      OK wrong turn.


      Jesus did it all. On time. Paid in full. So is one Huazzah enough? How about a dozen?

      Perhaps we are looking at it from the wrong perspective.

      Confession is also Worship.

      Acknowledging what we do, what we've done,

      And what He has done for us.

      It is directing Praise, for what?
      For our sin - forgiven. Reaffirming the Truth.

      Were it not for what Christ had done, no one would have hope.
      It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

      John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

      “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”
      sigpic

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      • #33
        like you said Wally- that argument is already very plainly debunked in the epistles.

        The argument for continual confession in the life of the believer is far, far more nebulous in the pages of Scripture.
        again, if i sin in 10 minutes, is my fellowship with God interrupted?

        Prove it to me by Scripture.

        remember as a believer, I cannot walk in darkness, I can only walk in the light (in John's terminology) and conversely a pagan cannot walk in the light but can only walk in darkness, a believer cannot (by john's own admission) walk in darkness.

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        • #34
          I do it because I feel led to

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          • #35
            Jon...I do it too, I'm not looking for a "way out of confession" but rather approaching it in a testing manner. There are two campe in this whole argument though-the camp who believes that you're saved up until you're last confession (lots of charismatic, pentecostal pulpits teach this- seen it first hand). Clearly that is unacceptable and easily debunked in Scripture, but that false doctrine is still being peddled, thus making confession a "work and mimicking their Catholic couterparts.

            In this thread though, I'm honing in more on the other camp who say that we keep sailing in and out of fellowship hourly or daily- like rudderless ships and have to continually keep on confessing sins that have already been forgiven and taken away to get back into God's good graces. Thats all. Are we really truly just like wraiths drifting in and out of the mists of fellowship and separation on an utterly continual basis? Or have we been reconciled to God and have been called into unending fellowship with him impossible to be broken by already forgiven sins?

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            • #36
              I understand your "argument." It's been a good discussion. That was just me wrapping it up because I have school...then revival...pray for us!

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              • #37
                1 Peter 3:7
                Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.
                It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

                John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

                “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”
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                • #38
                  praying for you jon. be blessed.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by markshaker View Post
                    Furthermore, back to the subject in general, if Paul made clear that the full forgiveness obtained at the Cross i something that happened once for all time and took all, every sin away, then is there a degree of insulting God coming back over and over and over again to "confess and seek forgiveness" for things that were already seen in advance and paid in full for? In a sense, I can't necessarily liken an earthly copy of relationshps to our Heavenly Father. I've never gone to my dad and said, "Dad, I want you to forgive me right now for everything I've ever done, am doing, and will do sinfully against you". Why? Because that is not possible for him to do. Forgiveness must be administered on a case by case basis with humans. Because who's to say that I might do something to my Dad 15 years from now that he never forgives me for- we simply cannot necessarily say that he would follow through 100% on forgiving me for everything at one point in time, past, present and future. But God did that for us. So there is no more sin- and when I do sin, I know He's already seen it, paid for it and took it away forever 2000 years ago. Asking forgiveness for something He's already forgiven me for is redundant (or at least I'm playing devil's advocate that it is). And frankly is insulting to him as an eternally Superior Heavenly Father relative to my earthly dad. It's apples to oranges with earthly dads and God.
                    But it isn't because YOU are human. Many things that God instructs us to do are for us, not for Him; He's the best psychologist ever. I'd also note; be careful, it was God Himself that compared Himself to an earthly father, and then told us how much more He loves us even than that. God chose the metaphor; my earthly Dad has no problem loving me and forgiving me, yes even my future actions won't change that. Why would I ever talk to my Heavenly Father less, about less, than I would my earthly Dad?

                    Again, where in Scripture does it tell us that the child of God, in the age of grace, part of the bride and body of Christ can EVER fall in and out of fellowship with Him? If we are IN CHRIST, and Christ and the Father have ceaseless fellowship (practically and positionally) then it is inconceivable, that confession would be required for me to be restored to God (practically or positionally) because what I'm asking to be forgiven from and agreeing with God about has already been paid for and forgiven at Calvary, and I am now IN CHRIST and thus benficiary of all that Jesus is, including ceaseless fellowship with God completely non-contingent upon my confession.
                    Our fellowship can be damaged on our side of the equation. Guilt, insecurity, depression, etc... impacts our relationship with God, not salvationally, but practically, on our part. Once sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are sealed. However, we have a living relationship with Him on a daily basis. We can do things like choose to yield to Him, or not; that will affect our relationship and the earthly consequences we reap. We are not transcendent, God recognizes that and interacts with us and instructs us in a way that makes sense to our brains.

                    P.S. Wally, there are two types of people in this world- walkers in light and walkers in darkness. John himself said that it is impossible for Christians to sin- why? Because be regenerated man is now firmly incapable of sin- Paul said (and John concurs) that it is no longer I doing the sin, but the sin within me. 1 John 1:6 is not talking about a light-walker sneaking around temporaily in the darkness, it is talking about salvation. Light or dark. Not a light-walker who's getting into some "dim" areas. Again, please recall the tenor and nature of the letter and its defense against the Gnostics and what they were saying about sin.
                    The idea is even if a light-walker does an action normally associated with a dark-walker, we are not condemned for it because there is no more law.

                    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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                    • #40
                      Wally, very very clutch verse there. A breaking in fellowship is clearly implied. The Greek word for hindered denotes a military tone where an army would dig a trench and lay debris out so it would make the opposing forces' ability to pass tougher. Is it possibly hindrance from a Satanic source- principalities and powers, etc? A la daniel's prayer that took a while to answer because Gabriel was held up by Satan?

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                      • #41
                        And we are to be filled, renewed, conformed. I believe these are active present tense words. Things that should be happening.

                        And it should evidence our faith.


                        Colossians 3:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
                        9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.


                        Perhaps you never felt out in the cold. Alone, missing out, silence. Perhaps you've not felt the warmth of His smile when you taken another baby step.

                        Some are futher along in their walk than others.

                        But then Paul died daily. Each day a new adventure in growing, conforming, doing His will.

                        And when you've blown a day through stupid stuff done, and wake up to the fact, don't you love the refreshing rain of His mercy and grace.... when we are honest with Him - confessing our mistakes?
                        But then did He withhold it from us? Or were we not prepared for the application?

                        Perhaps fellowship is more merged with feeling - emotion. But we can only experience it through honesty. For He is Truth.
                        It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

                        John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

                        “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”
                        sigpic

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                        • #42
                          I've been looking in e-sword. It looks like "asking" for forgiveness is more an Old Testament concept than a New Testament one. In the New Testament, forgiveness is promised for belief and repentance. Confessing is not the same as asking for forgiveness. The Old Testament speaks quite a bit about confessions of sin. In I John 1:9, it speaks of confession of sin, but most of the rest of the New Testament uses "confession" to speak of confessing Christ.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Jan51 View Post
                            I've been looking in e-sword. It looks like "asking" for forgiveness is more an Old Testament concept than a New Testament one. In the New Testament, forgiveness is promised for belief and repentance. Confessing is not the same as asking for forgiveness. The Old Testament speaks quite a bit about confessions of sin. In I John 1:9, it speaks of confession of sin, but most of the rest of the New Testament uses "confession" to speak of confessing Christ.
                            Correct, just like when you offend your spouse, you don't lose your marriage but apologize and ask for forgiveness to heal/strengthen the relationship.



                            Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                            Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
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                            • #44
                              One way of looking at it; it isn't a matter of "need" or "necessity." When I'm in a human relationship, such as with my husband, father, mother, brother, etc... I don't HAVE to tell them I love them, or tell them I'm sorry, it just flows from my relationship. It's the difference between living by law vs. living by faith... or living by the letter vs. living by the Spirit. The Spirit of the whole of scripture on this concept is to 1) admit we are sinners 2) admit when we slip up and commit a sinful act.

                              Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
                              Correct, just like when you offend your spouse, you don't lose your marriage but apologize and ask for forgiveness to heal/strengthen the relationship.

                              Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by markshaker View Post
                                Wally, very very clutch verse there. A breaking in fellowship is clearly implied. The Greek word for hindered denotes a military tone where an army would dig a trench and lay debris out so it would make the opposing forces' ability to pass tougher. Is it possibly hindrance from a Satanic source- principalities and powers, etc? A la daniel's prayer that took a while to answer because Gabriel was held up by Satan?
                                Its not clear what you consider a 'break in fellowship'. If you've sinned, and you have, and you are not back to the place you once were, you are 'further away' in fellowship. If you walk back to the consuming fire of a God, you'll be asking for forgiveness when you bow before Him. I know when I've limped back, its the first thing on the heart and from the mouth, forgive me Father. This may be a case where you don't need scripture to explain it, it just is. To be too casual with the Lord is not the best place for any of us, while we are still in this flesh, imo.
                                Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

                                Joel 3:2

                                I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

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