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  • The Pentecostal Movement

    According to some websites, there are over 400 million Pentecostal-charismatic Christians in the world today, and this is one of the most rapidly growing sections of the Church, especially in third world countries. Some P-C groups are probably guilty of excessive behaviour (just like the Corinthians in the Bible) but generally speaking these people are very committed to following Jesus Christ. Should evangelical churches regard this large and expanding group as a move of God in the last days, or the devil going about as a "roaring lion"?

  • #2
    It depends. There are some Churches that are growing and they preach the truth of the Gospel and there are others that are growing that have become seeker friendly.
    betty

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Betty View Post
      It depends. There are some Churches that are growing and they preach the truth of the Gospel and there are others that are growing that have become seeker friendly.
      betty
      "seeker friendly" ... I'm not sure what that means.

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      • #4
        http://www.thepropheticyears.com/com...20friendly.htm
        this is one site that talks about them

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Betty View Post
          http://www.thepropheticyears.com/com...20friendly.htm
          this is one site that talks about them
          Thanks ... interesting article. I can agree with some of what it says but it seems to be a grab bag of numerous ideas, which collectively do not identify P/c churches as being distinct from others, in my experience.

          I did a Google search on "Baptist charismatic" and came up with 834,000 hits! Some are saying the Pentecostal-charismatic movement is of the devil. The first site quoted this verse: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 1:3 and 4)

          I don't agree with everything that happens in P/c churches but I do not believe that they are "ungodly men" as this article claimed.

          I think we need to look at this movement without trying to protect our entrenched doctrinal and denominational positions, and consider what may be Scriptural and what may be the excesses of enthusiasm. (I would prefer to try too hard to be "in the Spirit" than not try hard enough

          This is a very interesting finding:

          LifeWay Research Studies the Use of Private Prayer Language
          NASHVILLE, Tenn.—A recent study from LifeWay Research on the use of private prayer language indicates that half of Southern Baptist pastors believe the Holy Spirit gives some people a special language to pray to God.
          The study also indicates the majority of Protestant senior pastors (63 percent) and laity (51 percent) believe in the gift of a private prayer language.
          Lifeway Research
          Last edited by kenod; June 4th, 2007, 03:21 AM.

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          • #6
            If a person is obeying God, do they really need to TRY to be in the Spirit? I think if we are in Gods will, we dont have to TRY, the HS can and will move on its own without our help to make it move.

            The devil has a counterfeit for everything God's. and he uses it pretty good to wreak havoc in our lives.

            there are many pentecostal churches out there that are on the fringes.

            This slain in the spirit thing??? where in the bible, did anyone that God reached out to just fall down on the ground? Jesus always picked them up because they were already down.

            The only times people fell back were in judgement or fear of judgement or plain fear. When the soldiers came for Jesus in the garden, what happened to them, they fell back. those who came by Him and were demonically possessed and oppressed, they fell down.

            In the corinthians it is quite clear on how the practice of tongues should be done, and yet, many many pc churches do not practice tongues biblically.

            Everyone does not have to speak in tongues, and it is not the only sign of being filled with the spirit.

            Everyone who is not saved does not have a demon.

            I attended UPC, COG, holiness pc, non-denominational pc, for most of my growing up years. That is to say, I have been there.

            I will say, I am grateful for what I gleaned out of these churches while I was there. It has helped me in ways I never knew I would even need. Many denominations dont even believe in demons at all, what a hey day the devil has there. but in the same note, there is not a demon under every rock. That is the problem here, denominations go to extremes to separte from the other denominations, and miss out on a lot of good.

            denomintions, is a devils hey day, cuz that means he has a bickering and fighting and separated. Then we are weak. We all need to get back to the basics and divide the word rightly and get things in the proper persepctive and ask God to help us get there.

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            • #7
              BlessedinHim,,

              I think you make some good points. In my opinion, not everything that happens in every P/c church is correct ... then not everything that happens in your church or my church is probably 100% correct all the time either.

              I don't think we can dismiss a church as being "not of God" just because we would do some things differently - and yet that is what happens a lot of the time with those who do not agree with P/c churches (I'm not saying that's your position).

              I think it is very difficult to look at what is happening around the world in the universal Church and not see the P/c movement is a move of God. When I was a young man figures like those in the LifeWay study were unheard of, and yet over the years, many genuine God-fearing, Bible-studying people have been led to see things differently. I think we need to be careful that our preferred interpretation of the Bible doesn't cause us to just write off the experience of 400+ million Christians in the Church today.

              With regard to "trying" to be "in the Spirit" - yes, I do believe that we need to make an effort to be open to the moving of God's Spirit ... it is possible to quench the Spirit by our attitude. Some may be more enthusiastic than we feel is appropriate, but I think that is better than being lukewarm in our worship.
              Last edited by kenod; June 4th, 2007, 09:37 AM.

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              • #8
                I dont think any denomination or branch or non-denomination has it ALL right. I think it is sad that we have these divisions, I dont think that is what God had planned. I study the bible and let the HS lead me in that study, and I find some uncomfortable things in there sometimes, but that is when it is time for me to change, allow God to make that change in me to conform more to His word. All the different denominations has something important to offer, but due to the fact that they emphasize one important aspect of the biblical truth over another distorts the truth somewhat, some more than others. I am glad I have a multi-denominational back ground. But above all, glad that I have the standard to go by above what any man might say. and the HS to guide me through it.

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                • #9
                  You should define "Pentecostal" and "Charismatic" before you attack all who fall under those headers... I think you'd be surprised who all actually falls under them...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by blessedinhim View Post
                    If a person is obeying God, do they really need to TRY to be in the Spirit? I think if we are in Gods will, we dont have to TRY, the HS can and will move on its own without our help to make it move.


                    I am Pentecostal-AoG-and I would like to discuss this with you. I'm not sure what you mean by "trying to be in the Sjpirit" can you explain that?

                    The devil has a counterfeit for everything God's. and he uses it pretty good to wreak havoc in our lives.

                    there are many pentecostal churches out there that are on the fringes.

                    No, there are a few-just like there are a few Baptist churches or Presbyterian churches ect...and again, it depends on what you mean "on the fringes" we are to be a peculiar people, according to scripture.

                    This slain in the spirit thing??? where in the bible, did anyone that God reached out to just fall down on the ground? Jesus always picked them up because they were already down.

                    Being "slain in the spirit"-that's a human term-but yes, it is scriptural-ie Paul on the Damascus road, the priests in the OT, and the soldiers who came to arrest Jesus. It is merely some peoples reaction to the power of God-it is neither good nor bad-just a fact

                    The only times people fell back were in judgement or fear of judgement or plain fear. When the soldiers came for Jesus in the garden, what happened to them, they fell back. those who came by Him and were demonically possessed and oppressed, they fell down.

                    Still, merely our fleshes reaction to His power-I attend a Pentecostal church where this happens only rarely-but it is from God-our mere mortal bodies have a hard time sometimes, with the power from the Creator of the Universe.

                    In the corinthians it is quite clear on how the practice of tongues should be done, and yet, many many pc churches do not practice tongues biblically.

                    Ours does-each in turn and let one interpret-but again, it isn't Biblical to never have it either-that is even more unbiblical than-tongues used at the wrong time or for the wrong reason.

                    Everyone does not have to speak in tongues, and it is not the only sign of being filled with the spirit.

                    No, but it IS the first physical sign of the Baptism in the Spirit. Acts 2:4, Acts 19:6, Acts 10:46

                    Everyone who is not saved does not have a demon.

                    Never heard that teaching

                    I attended UPC, COG, holiness pc, non-denominational pc, for most of my growing up years. That is to say, I have been there.

                    I will say, I am grateful for what I gleaned out of these churches while I was there. It has helped me in ways I never knew I would even need. Many denominations dont even believe in demons at all, what a hey day the devil has there. but in the same note, there is not a demon under every rock. That is the problem here, denominations go to extremes to separte from the other denominations, and miss out on a lot of good.

                    denomintions, is a devils hey day, cuz that means he has a bickering and fighting and separated. Then we are weak. We all need to get back to the basics and divide the word rightly and get things in the proper persepctive and ask God to help us get there.
                    I'm sorry that you got some teaching that "there is a demon under every rock" but I've been in the AoG-the largest Pentecostal church for quite a few years-and I've never heard that even once.

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                    • #11
                      firstlove, in another thread you spoke about being slain in the spirit and I want to repeat what I said:

                      I disagree. The times that it happened in scripture could have been when they were overcome by awe and fear or by the power of God. Please note that there were no people that caused this falling, there was no laying on of hands so to say that it is the same is stretching it. What you see happening today is not the same and one should run from these types of manifestations.

                      When Jesus laid hands on people they did not fall. When Jesus breathed on His diciples and said "Recieve the Holy Spirit" they did not fall. Just because these signs are occurring today does not mean that God is behind them. We need to be very discerning nowadays because:

                      1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

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                      • #12
                        Yes, you are right-deception is rampant-and I would not make a doctrine out of being slain in the Spirit-but it happened in scripture-and happens today. I have had this happen to me only a few times-and it wasn't anyone but God-and my reaction to that power. The power of God is an awesome power.

                        You said, "The times that it happened in scripture could have been when they were overcome by awe and fear or by the power of God."--The same thing can happen today.
                        Last edited by firstlove; June 4th, 2007, 06:46 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by firstlove View Post
                          Yes, you are right-deception is rampant-and I would not make a doctrine out of being slain in the Spirit-but it happened in scripture-and happens today. I have had this happen to me only a few times-and it wasn't anyone but God-and my reaction to that power. The power of God is an awesome power.

                          You said, "The times that it happened in scripture could have been when they were overcome by awe and fear or by the power of God."--The same thing can happen today.
                          I think your attitude towards the 'slain in the Spirit' experience is well balanced - it only ever happened to me once, and in a different setting than is ususal. This may be another example from Scripture, but like you, I do not make a doctrine about it: And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. Rev 1:17 When everyone falls over in every meeting I think there may be a bit of 'mass hysteria' going on.

                          Although Pentecostal-charismatic meetings are easy to criticise because of 'enthusiastic excesses', I think it is a mistake to disregard what is happening in the universal Church as a move of God. For anyone to imply that is the "doctrine of demons" fails to see how committed to Jesus Christ the people are

                          The Rapture is a doctrine that was not always held so widely as it is today, so we need to be open to God revealing Himself to the Church in a progressive manner, since the time of the Reformation.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by firstlove View Post
                            Yes, you are right-deception is rampant-and I would not make a doctrine out of being slain in the Spirit-but it happened in scripture-and happens today. I have had this happen to me only a few times-and it wasn't anyone but God-and my reaction to that power. The power of God is an awesome power.

                            You said, "The times that it happened in scripture could have been when they were overcome by awe and fear or by the power of God."--The same thing can happen today.
                            So then would you agree that the slain in the spirit that happens at Benny Hinn meetings are such - the power of God - the same that you have experienced? If not - why?

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                            • #15
                              Trying to be in the Spirit was brought up by another poster first, and like I said, I am not sure about trying to be in the spirit. How can you try to be in the spirit? Either you are or you are not.

                              I didnt mention A of G in my post.

                              I think I said in just an earlier post that I dont think any church group has it 100%.

                              And I am sure there are churches in every denominational claim that could be considered on the fringe, meaning they go out of their way to do things to the utmost extreme or they dont really understand what the bible meant by it. Taking scripture sorely out of context and applying it to what they want.

                              we do have the phelps these days who have a baptist name, and it makes me ill. I think that the baptist name should be ripped off their door. I am sure there is some church out there that has made you feel the same way that may have shared some part of the name of your church.

                              I dont think God would put men down in the floor to act like some kind of rabid animal, squirming and carrying on so. That is not biblical to let all things be decently and in order.

                              I had forgot about Saul, but he is the only one I can think of that was brought down, but it was necessary to get his attention. He had his heart in the right place, just not toward the right people, and God did that to get his attention to get him straightened out.

                              All the others falling down, were not God reaching out to them. Where in the OT did the priests fall down in the Spirit?

                              Whether or not they actually taught that there is a demon under every rock, that is the impression that they quite emphatically left me with. I know there isnt a demon behind every thing that goes wrong, many times it is merely the consequences for our bad choices.

                              the main point of my post was that no denomination has it 100% correct. They wind up with their point of focus only being on one or two issues in the doctrine that God has set out for us. This is generalizing a bit, but please bear with me here and just the point is to be made of what I am saying....
                              Pentecostal is more about speaking in tongues laying on of hands and spiritual highs, dont do this, dont do that. Are you demon possesssed?

                              Nazarene is more about just Holiness living. They dont have a clue about demon posession.

                              Baptist is more about getting people in the door and getting them to accept Christ and getting them baptized.

                              Methodist tend to be more liturgical and more into ritual.

                              That is my point. We need all of this in our life to get a balanced view of what the bible says.

                              Without the pentecostal part of my up bringing, I would not have known how to handle demonic oppression personally or demon possession in another. I have witnessed both in person.

                              The Nazarene helped me in the way I should go to live out a life that can be pleasing to God.

                              Baptist show me it is important to love my neighbor as myself.

                              Methodist shows me respect and beauty in the sacraments and what they mean.

                              This is just my personal experience, and I am thankful again for it.

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