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  • #31
    Originally posted by firstlove View Post
    'The thing that bothered me more, was the fact they really get more into legalism. Dont cut your hair, dont wear pants, dont wear make up, dont watch movies, dont dont dont......."
    The church I attend teaches what you call "legalism". In my opinion it is only legalism when we claim that these things in some way contribute to our salvation. Most churches I know who teach what they would call "holiness", do not believe these things are a part of our salvation. They would say that these things are found in the Bible and they still apply to Christians today. Other churches admit they are in the Bible, but feel they are no longer applicable in today's modern society.

    I see these "legalistic" behaviours in the same vein as being baptised, going to church, helping the needy ... I don't do those things because I am hoping they will help to save me, I do them because I love Jesus Christ and I want to please Him.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by kenod View Post
      The church I attend teaches what you call "legalism". In my opinion it is only legalism when we claim that these things in some way contribute to our salvation. Most churches I know who teach what they would call "holiness", do not believe these things are a part of our salvation. They would say that these things are found in the Bible and they still apply to Christians today. Other churches admit they are in the Bible, but feel they are no longer applicable in today's modern society.

      I see these "legalistic" behaviours in the same vein as being baptised, going to church, helping the needy ... I don't do those things because I am hoping they will help to save me, I do them because I love Jesus Christ and I want to please Him.


      Hold it-I agree with you-you took my quote out of context. God has called us to live Godly Holy lives set apart for Him. If God has told you to quit cutting your hair-then please by all means do so, He just hasn't told me that.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by RefinedbyFire View Post
        First Love, I'm really sorry if you felt offended in any way. If you look at my two statements I made in this thread, I said I believed there were genuine Christians within the denomination. I said that I fear that Pentecostal Christians could be part of that group mentioned in Matthew 7:21-29 (mainly because of the combo of the dramatic works, and the lawlessness mentioned). And, I still fear that. I guess I don't feel like I need to back out of those feelings.

        Each individual church under the umbrella of a denomination is different. Maybe your certain Pentecostal church is right on the truth, where the group I attended had definite error.

        At this particular group, this is what I experienced:

        There were tongues spoke loudly and out-of-control. There was no interpretor. That is wrong according to Scripture, but nobody seemed to care.


        There were people that acted what they called "drunk in the Spirit" (out-of-control laughter). To me, that is not self-control (a Fruit of the Spirit).


        While praising the Lord with music, there were a few girls dancing kinda provocative (a bit sensual) with flags and stuff.



        The Bible was quoted a lot less than most churches. Nobody hardly opened their Bibles. One service, I brought my Bible and seriously started reading it in the corner. Some people looked at me kinda wierd...


        One service, they had men come from California, and in their prayers, they were praying for riches to be sown in everybody's life, and said "Forget giving to the poor, we pray for..." People were jumping up and saying "Yes Lord! Yes Lord!" to a prayer that was against His Holy Word!


        Certain people were giving "words" from the Lord all the time. Yet, one person I knew of giving words, hardly read the Word, and would get upset at themselves for occasionally going to Rated R movies! I came to the conclusion that I don't think the Lord is giving this person messages & words to deliver. I mean, the Holy Prophets got words from the Lord every so many years -- not multiple times a week!




        People that called themselves "Prophets" didn't work, weren't interested in working, were always asking for money, preached on gaining millionaire riches and finances from God, when they didn't even tithe their income to God.


        I feel I have a right to come to my conclusions. However, I realize your church could be different. Again, I am sorry if I offended you. Grace and peace to you. Thanks for sharing your feelings.

        Are you saying he shouldn't have felt the conviction from the Holy Spirit for going to movies that didn't glorify the Lord, perhaps God has called him to a Holier calling than that.


        Here in God's Word we have a good guide as to what to watch.....

        This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

        Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (2 Timothy 3:1-5, KJV)

        If those are the kinds of things in the R movies-and, sorry to say, that is the NORM anymore-we have no choice but "to turn away"-if we are going to be obediant children




        According to scripture-prophecy is to be used in every service-in fact, the only time we are told to "covet" is in the teaching on Spiritual Gifts-and "when you come together" 1Cor.14:23 is a far cry from never.


        Again, I still concur that you took your judgement and your experience and placed them unfairly on a large group of God's children. I, frankly have never seen some of the things you're speaking about-in the whole time I've been in my church-but I'll tell you one thing-I would rather go to a church were the Lord was welcome to move upon the people than one where He wasn't welcome in the building like most churches today and if the Lord truly calls upon me to act foolishly for Him-I pray that I wlll obey. It's funny, you can go to a football game and scream and jump for worldly things and they call you a "fan"-but when you get so in love with Jesus that you pour out your love for Him then some call you "fanatic;'..



        How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. . . . Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. . . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." (1Cor. 14:26, 29-32, 37-40

        While I believe in "decency and order" I think that we're missing it altogether when we don't let the spritual gifts move at all-like in most churches today,
        Last edited by firstlove; June 7th, 2007, 06:21 AM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by firstlove View Post
          Hold it-I agree with you-you took my quote out of context. God has called us to live Godly Holy lives set apart for Him. If God has told you to quit cutting your hair-then please by all means do so, He just hasn't told me that.
          Thanks for clarifying. I was trying to share my understanding of the term legalism, because it is often applied (incorrectly I think) to churches that teach certain "old fashioned" behaviours. I see legalism as doing something because it is necessary for your salvation. I do not even see water baptism as essential for salvation, but I believe any born again Christian would want to do what they believe is the Lord's will.

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          • #35
            First Love: I'm sorry & I'm backing out of this discussion. Yes, as I talked about: According to testing certain things according to the Word of God in that group I spoke of earlier, I came to my conclusions that error was occuring. But, that doesn't mean I feel that way about the entire Pentecostal church.

            Reading the Word a couple of minutes ago, I all of a sudden remembered the subjects of "Causing divisions in the Church." Without thinking about it, these message boards can be a possible trap to do that, as you discuss subjects others present to you. So, I'll leave you with: I believe there are saved and unsaved folks in every Christian denomination. Jesus truly knows who are His. Regardless of gifts, signs, miracles, and wonders, the Scriptures clearly show to love Him with all your heart, soul, and mind, and thirst & hunger for His righteousness & holiness above all things.
            Last edited by RefinedbyFire; June 7th, 2007, 03:06 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by kenod View Post
              The church I attend teaches what you call "legalism". In my opinion it is only legalism when we claim that these things in some way contribute to our salvation. Most churches I know who teach what they would call "holiness", do not believe these things are a part of our salvation. They would say that these things are found in the Bible and they still apply to Christians today. Other churches admit they are in the Bible, but feel they are no longer applicable in today's modern society.

              I see these "legalistic" behaviours in the same vein as being baptised, going to church, helping the needy ... I don't do those things because I am hoping they will help to save me, I do them because I love Jesus Christ and I want to please Him.
              I actually brought up the legalism aspect. And you have hit on the thing that matters. The attitude to why you do these things. Some do teach it in a way that if you do these things they just about kick you out or think they need to lay hands on you to get rid of that demon spirit in you because you dont see anything wrong doing these things. If you do it on a personal level as an act of devotion because you love the Lord, that is not the problem. the problem arises when you think you have to do these things because some preacher said so.

              After the verse these dont cut your hair law for women, there is a disclaimer after it, and that verse goes seemingly ignored.

              I personally have a high respect for true pentecostal people. I have a high respect for anyone who truly follows the Lord in all they do. They have received a gift to be able to do it. A blessing.

              These things in and of themselves is not bad. God looks at the motive of the heart.

              A preacher cannot preach biblically and say or imply that if a woman cuts her hair she will go to hell. This is not what the bible teaches us. This is the type of extreme legalism I am talking about.

              Taking things to the extreme end of legalism is what the pharisees and sadduccess were doing.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by blessedinhim View Post
                I actually brought up the legalism aspect. And you have hit on the thing that matters. The attitude to why you do these things. Some do teach it in a way that if you do these things they just about kick you out or think they need to lay hands on you to get rid of that demon spirit in you because you dont see anything wrong doing these things. If you do it on a personal level as an act of devotion because you love the Lord, that is not the problem. the problem arises when you think you have to do these things because some preacher said so.

                After the verse these dont cut your hair law for women, there is a disclaimer after it, and that verse goes seemingly ignored.

                I personally have a high respect for true pentecostal people. I have a high respect for anyone who truly follows the Lord in all they do. They have received a gift to be able to do it. A blessing.

                These things in and of themselves is not bad. God looks at the motive of the heart.

                A preacher cannot preach biblically and say or imply that if a woman cuts her hair she will go to hell. This is not what the bible teaches us. This is the type of extreme legalism I am talking about.

                Taking things to the extreme end of legalism is what the pharisees and sadduccess were doing.
                I appreciate your attitude, and I agree that is the right way to look at others. Regarding the "disclaimer" verse you mentioned - I wonder if you have read that verse in other translations such as NIV, NASB, NLT

                But if anyone wants to argue about this,
                all I can say is that we have no other custom than this,
                and all the churches of God feel the same way about it.
                (NLT)

                I can see why some churches take this to mean it was only a custom of the old days ... although it wasn't until the 20th C that the "custom" began to disappear, and then the first to do so were not good examples of Christian behaviour. Anyway, I don't think this is the appropriate place to discuss the subject, so I'll say no more.
                God bless.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by kenod View Post
                  I appreciate your attitude, and I agree that is the right way to look at others. Regarding the "disclaimer" verse you mentioned - I wonder if you have read that verse in other translations such as NIV, NASB, NLT

                  But if anyone wants to argue about this,
                  all I can say is that we have no other custom than this,
                  and all the churches of God feel the same way about it.
                  (NLT)

                  I can see why some churches take this to mean it was only a custom of the old days ... although it wasn't until the 20th C that the "custom" began to disappear, and then the first to do so were not good examples of Christian behaviour. Anyway, I don't think this is the appropriate place to discuss the subject, so I'll say no more.
                  God bless.
                  I havent looked up this verse in other translations before, I will start a thread about it and we can discuss it, and the Holy Spirit will open the word to us and our hearts and minds, too.

                  I posted the new thread in bible study: 1 Corinthians 11:11-20
                  Last edited by BlessedinHim; June 8th, 2007, 12:18 AM.

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