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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nightelf View Post
    Look upon the heart, not the outside
    Exactly
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
    (Psa 19:1b-2)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by allybell12 View Post
      The Quiverfull lifestyle is a return to Christian values and moral laws of the New & Old Testanment.
      That's interesting, can you explain more about what of the Old Testament you're returning to and how you express that?

      We had (have?) a poster here who was coming out of the Quiverfull movement, she had some questions for us and had some issues with what she regarded as the "legalism" of the Quiverfulls. It was understandably hard for her to shed that mindset.
      "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


      Jesus + something = nothing

      Jesus + nothing = Everything

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      • #18
        I find that with movements like the "Quiverfull" movement, many times followers take certain verses out of their proper context and attempt to apply them in a way that does not flow with the rest of scripture. As far as dress goes; that is a matter between them and God, and is one of those things the Holy Spirit guides each believer on. I don't mind someone dressing modestly... I dress modestly, but many practicing quiverfull would probably not think so. My only problem is when anyone, not just quiverfull folks, starts teaching legalistic doctrine. Meaning, personal conviction is wonderful, but it turns legalistic when another believer lays something out as a mandate that is not actually a mandate for a NT believer.

        As for being separate, the NT context is in mannerism; people should be able to tell us from non-believers by the way we react and respond in the world, esp. by loving one another. We are to be a light in the world, showing forth Christ, and spreading the gospel message, which is the good news of salvation by grace through faith.

        Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hootmon View Post
          Im not even sure what the term 'Christian culture' means.

          For instance... I rather doubt that the ECFs (Early Church Fathers) would recognize anything being done today, or even a century ago, as being 'Christian culture' beyond a superficial resemblance.

          Point is, Culture is primarily 'local', both in time and place, and any notion of 'Christian culture' is two centuries or more removed from its original context.
          That should have been 'millenia' and not 'centuries'...
          The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
          Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
          (Psa 19:1b-2)

          Comment


          • #20
            I think when I watch the Duggars on TV, they must be quiverfull and they seem so gracious and accepting and non judgmental... then I have run into a website where conservative modest women where headscarves and skirts only and follow old testament laws very strictly and I asked some questions about head scarves and they got very defensive and were very standoffish.... an article on that website said if you have cancer you have sin in your life.. and I asked a question about that also since my mom died of cancer and she gave such a hurtful answer to me, it was so arrogant. Also these women think they are living holier lives if they dont' shave their legs... it's just a mess of laws and rules. So while I think there are people like the Duggars out there, I think more are like the standoffish ladies on that website.

            That is my observation of the quiverfull crowd.

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            • #21
              Just a question..
              Your profile says that you are 17 years old. How is it that you call yourself a "quiverfull-er" and a homeschooler? Do you mean that your parents are of the quiverful leaning and they are homeschooling you and maybe you would like to do that when you are an adult???? I have read your posts several times and I am not really getting what you are trying to ask..
              Thanks!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Lucy View Post
                Just a question..
                Your profile says that you are 17 years old. How is it that you call yourself a "quiverfull-er" and a homeschooler? Do you mean that your parents are of the quiverful leaning and they are homeschooling you and maybe you would like to do that when you are an adult???? I have read your posts several times and I am not really getting what you are trying to ask..
                Thanks!
                I beleive people like the Quiverfull go to school up to age 14. They also get married and have a family at a young age too. Im sure someone on here can correct me if Im wrong...

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                • #23


                  Wow it looks like it got busy when I was away for a day! WOW...lol
                  At iSong...Jesus came and fullfilled the ceremonial and legalistic (ie dont wear clothes of two differenct types) laws but He didn't abolish the moral laws. If preachers can reference that being gay is a sin using a quote from the OT then one can deduce that the OT moral laws are still in effect. For example if you wanted to tell your stepbrother he couldn't be interested in you or say a cousin, then you'd use a quote from the OT. I myself am doing an indepth study on the OT moral laws just to see what's there.
                  To answer Lucy's Question: My parents aren't quiverfull. My folks are divorced and I just live with my mom. I would say she is an evangelical and I am a fundamentalist.
                  Quiverfull is a matter of conviction, conversion if you will. Just as you don't have to be a certain age to have Jesus in your heart you don't have to be a certain age to have the value of being open to having a large family.
                  I could understand what the other ex Quiverfull poster might have been through strictly speaking that I grew up Pentecostal and Charismatic and in this denomination if you didn't have enough faith that is why your problems weren't fixed and/or healed.
                  Um..at Shannon, most Quiverfulls go all the way thru high school and the sons & some daughters (depends on the patriarch) go to college.
                  I am in my 12th grade year and also in my first year of college due to a special education oppurtunity that my community does.
                  I mean Christian culture in a broader sense---our values, our religion, if you will and the world does view it that way, makes us into a widespread culture---a community if you like that better.

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                  • #24
                    Do your Mennonite/Quiverfull end-time beliefs line up with ours? I wasn't aware that Mennonites are pre-trib.
                    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


                    Jesus + something = nothing

                    Jesus + nothing = Everything

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Quiverfull is a matter of conviction, conversion if you will. Just as you don't have to be a certain age to have Jesus in your heart you don't have to be a certain age to have the value of being open to having a large family.

                      Thank you allybell for responding to my question...I commend your goals and inspirations. I am thrilled that at your age you are even thinking of such things, especially considering that you didn't come from that background. I have friends that could be described as "Quiverfull" in that they are patriarchial in their family lives and have many children. To really be "Quiverfull" you must find a husband that believes the same way which is difficult, especially these days. In that movement, the man usually decides those things since he is the one usually supporting his family. The woman must be agreeable as well. In theory it sounds good but in reality it becomes a lot more difficult. Especially if child birth doesn't come easy or your income doesn't match your needs. That is when it gets a little messy and often falls into the legalism that pushes people away.....

                      After being married for 29 years, my husband and I have 5 children. We never used birth control, the 5 is just what we got. I had some birthing issues and after the 5th, I almost bled to death. My husband had a vas. so we would have no more children. I could have just kept getting pregnant and died the next time...Some in the movement would just say that my death would have been God's will and that we didn't trust enough. I believe that God gave us good judgement to use in these cases. We don't trust less but we do live in a fallen world.


                      Being open to life is a wonderful way to live but we have to be really careful and not get legalistic about it.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by iSong6:3 View Post
                        Do your Mennonite/Quiverfull end-time beliefs line up with ours? I wasn't aware that Mennonites are pre-trib.
                        Hmm IDK on that one. My end time beliefs stem from simply what's been happening in our world! lol. Also I have been reading end time prophecy since I was 12 years old and was largely mentored by Tim Lahaye's book on the Trib. I keep with probably....IDK honestly. Pentecostals are pre trib as far as know tho my pastor personally is end trib for the rapture.
                        Quiverfull---some factions are Dominion theology in that . I remember reading about that in a book about the movement.
                        IDK about Mennonites. I am myself am not a Mennonite nor part a of Mennonite church so I wouldn't know what to say about that except Google it and see what you find.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by allybell12 View Post
                          sometimes it's exhausting to keep fighting for our rights but we must if we want to preserve Christian culture till Jesus raptures us.
                          I don't quite understand this as well. What 'rights' are you fighting for? The right to dress modestly? The right to be right on the subject?

                          If you dress apart, you'll be treated that way. If you conform in dress (within reason, obviously), you'll likely not be noticed. It seems there is a whole lot of worrying over outward attire in your movement, creating a whole lotta artificial animosity.

                          Let me ask you a question. What if, in your community, there came one who was only say.....half quiverfull, whould he/she be shunned? On what basis would you judge them, and would it be a judgment over what God commands, or would it be over opinions of men? I must say, there are many believers outside of your movement, so what exactly does this movement accomplish aside from some local ordinances about dress? That last question is rhetorical by the way, I have lived around this many years of my life here in Amish-ish country.

                          From my perspective, that of a believer for many years, when I see the 'dress', I only think Mennonite or Amish, it goes no further than that, it accomplishes nothing regarding my perception of them being more righteous, more holy, more moral, or anything like that. Men are all the same, whether Amish or not, there is no difference. I guess I'm saying it doesn't matter at all really, aside from modest clothing. It can give rise to ridicule, it makes some prejudge them for whatever reason.

                          I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I realize you may be quite young and I don't want you to go against what your parents have defined for you. I would rather see you articulate how you do this for yourself, between you and the Lord, and how it doesn't go beyond that. In other words, its all good if you were to move away from all that you know and still dress in moderation. Thats cool, most believers would do that, just not the dressing 'plain' thing, it serves no purpose other than man made restrictions.
                          Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

                          Joel 3:2

                          I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

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                          • #28
                            One thing from my perspective that I don't understand... there's dressing modestly, and then there is dressing "plain" as they did centuries ago. Dressing modestly while still being modern in fabric, etc... doesn't draw attention to oneself. Dressing "plain" as they did centuries ago draws a lot of attention to the person themselves, which is opposite of what I thought dressing modestly was supposed to be about.

                            Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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                            • #29
                              Good point.

                              " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

                              Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

                              Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

                              Matthew 22:9 NIV
                              'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


                              I'm praying for you daily!
                              I get my Bibles here

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                              • #30
                                This thread reminded me of something I once heard:

                                An elderly pastor who had been around a loooonnngg time was asked his view on women wearing make-up. He looked at the man asking the question and said "If you have a barn whose paint is peeling - do you paint it? Some barns need more paint than others!"

                                Just trying to interject some humor! I do know that many of these "communities" if you will, have similar ideas about make-up hairstyles etc. as they do about clothing. I think our lovely posters have done a great job answering questions. The way I see it, is that it boils down to this:

                                1. Are you acting out of a personal conviction - or looking to rebel from an opposite upbringing? (pentecostal to "quiver full" would be quite a 180)

                                2. If it is not a doctrinal issue - are you being legalistic about it? If not - groovy - if you find yourself leaning towards legalistic - you may have a problem.

                                I think God uses each of us individually, and our personal "style" can be a contributing factor. This is what I mean. I am your typical SAHM, kinda trendy in my own way, but have no problem connecting with others like me. Drop in a 20 something with pink hair - they are going to be perceived differently until, hopefully, their love of Jesus shines through.

                                Drop me into a skatepark - I am just not going to connect initially with the people there. God uses us in all shapes, sizes and whatever's.

                                You are quite young, and your views and outlooks are going to change and grow over time. Just be sure you leave yourself open to the Holy Spirit's guidance. That is what is dangerous about legalistic groups - especially if you become involved while still young. The legalism can become very oppressive, and you have isolated yourself to a specific set of people . It then becomes hard to find a way out or "loosen things" up, because at that point you are turning your whole support system against yourself.

                                Simply, if you aren't judging others by those standards, don't worry about it, just know that by your very appearance you will encounter some prejudice. That is fact. The question is, is your belief in those things strong enough to withstand that pressure? If so, you should be able to let it go, without it bothering you too much. If you can't, maybe there are some things you need to look at. Our Christian faith shouldn't breed resentment and defensiveness in ourselves in regards to matters that aren't doctrinal or salvation issues.
                                Last edited by Beccasue; September 28th, 2011, 05:32 PM. Reason: clairification

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