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Beware of the subtle Hebrew Roots cult

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  • Originally posted by bookworm1711 View Post
    If people were properly taught in the Bible, the written Word of God, they hopefully would not fall for every wind of doctrine! I sometimes wonder if all preachers should forget preaching and stick to teaching the Word by systematically teaching through expository preaching the whole Bible (did I almost contradict myself?). There is an absolute dearth of solid Bible teaching these days, I believe.
    Mr. Bookworm (I think the Mr. sounds good at the beginning! More astute?) ,

    I absolutely agree with you, however after reading a lot of the articles on the second link, there are two problems with the Sacred Name and HR movements along with what you posted... this is a quote from a part of the 2nd link blog;

    "This one is a biggie: In both the Hebrew Roots and Sacred Name movements, there is a tremendous emphasis on the understanding of the scriptures through the lens of Hebrew thought and of the Hebrew language. Most adherents believe that the entire Bible was originally written in Hebrew, and that the New Testament was translated into Greek from its original Hebrew. As a result, in the HRM view, ALL New Testament writings were contaminated and corrupted with Hellenistic thought. And since, according to Law Keepers, our accepted canon of scripture (compiled by ”corrupt church fathers”) and eventual English translations came from a contaminated and corrupted source, they can’t possibly be accurate! While some Law Keepers continue to use their current Bibles, they do so with suspicion, often relying on outside commentary or perspective from the HRM for clarification of their “flawed” texts. Due to their suspicion of our current Bible, some in the HRM have worked to provide us with new “translations”..."
    I believe it can be so very hard to refute certain doctrinal issues when one is highly suspicious of the validity of scripture to begin with. We all know that ALL of scripture is God breathed. WE know that, but how do you debate with someone who doesn't believe that or believes the scriptures were tainted? For most people, like me, who just aren't that knowledgable about ancient Hebrew and Greek, it becomes very difficult... Although we all can have access to a Strong's, unfortunately it does't mean much to those who want to make up their own intrepretations.

    In any event, the plus side to finding this blog (the 2nd link in my post) is that it is definitely leading me in the right direction in discerning false teachings! And it is definitely getting me excited about diving into a better bible study, which is a good point you bring up!

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    • Dear Joyb0218 (and all),

      At Post 20 above you commented:

      I love my best friend dearly and wish I had the knowledge to refute all of their beliefs... We have just agreed to disagree, but on that note we are commanded not to be equally yolked with unbelievers. It just makes me so sad....
      It can be discouraging at times to witness to close friends who have become strongly attached to a mistaken belief system.

      If there is a way for you to "keep the door of communication" open between you, the Lord may yet bless your testimony and faithfulness.

      I suspect most go astray because they were not thoroughly grounded in their faith. By this I mean, they are not firmly grounded in the Bible itself. Those of us who are, by God's grace, firmly grounded in the Bible, have the armor of God to keep us safe from the onslaughts of the Devil. It is spiritual warfare.

      The Bible is a self-interpreting Book. I am sure it is God Himself who designed it that way.

      An elderly Christian friend ("Uncle Frank" who lived near me on Fort Street and Hubbard many years ago near the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit) who has since gone home to be with the Lord impressed upon me as a young man that what is true has a natural "fit" in the Bible scheme of things. So what is in error clearly "doesn't fit." That, to me, is the key.

      As you quoted from the second linked source from your Post 22 in your Post 24 above,

      Most adherents believe that the entire Bible was originally written in Hebrew, and that the New Testament was translated into Greek from its original Hebrew. As a result, in the HRM view, ALL New Testament writings were contaminated and corrupted with Hellenistic thought.
      those in the HRM and Sacred Name movements are most attached to Hebrew thought and Aramaic sources.

      But, as I stated in an earlier post on this thread (my Post 17),

      The NT was originally written in Greek. How do I know? Because in the Greek NT there is much idiomatic use of the Greek language, including the use of figures of speech, which show absolutely from a linguistic standpoint that the Greek found in the Greek NT is not translation language, but the first language in which it was written.
      Let me share just a tidbit of actual evidence rather than mere assertion to prove my point:

      Considering Matthew 16:18 (a text always misconstrued by Roman Catholics!),

      Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
      In the phrase "upon this rock," we can readily identify two figures of speech: (1) Anthropomorphism, where God is figured by things which pertain to the earth, here, a rock, as especially seen at Deuteronomy 32:31, "our Rock," and a number of other places in the Bible (here at Matthew 16:18; see also Psalm 18:2. Psalm 31:2, margin; Psalm 31:3. Psalm 42:9. Psalm 73:26, margin; Isaiah 26:4, margin). (2) Paregmenon, or derivation: the repetition of words derived from the same root word, a figure which occurs at the following passages in Scripture: Psalm 68:28 (strengthen); Matthew 16:18 (Peter, rock); John 15:2 (involving the words "taketh away" and "purgeth"); Acts 8:31 (involving the words "understandeth" and "readeth"); Romans 2:1 (involving multiple uses of "judgest" and/or "condemnest"); Romans 5:19 (involving the words "disobedience" and "obedience"); Romans 12:3 (involving the words "think" and "thinketh" as well as "soberly"); and so for many other passages which I won't spell out specifically: 1 Corinthians 11:29, 31, 32; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Corinthians 5:4; 2 Corinthians 10:6; 2 Thessalonians 3:11; Hebrews 10:34; James 2:4; 1 John 3:20.

      Now to get back to Matthew 16:18,

      rock is the Greek word Petra. What is the rock upon which Christ will build His church? Greek grammar is against referring "rock" to Peter, for "Peter" is masculine gender, while "rock" is neuter gender.

      Now here is the main point to understand:

      Some [Roman Catholics] counter, however, that such nice distinctions in the Greek were not made in the Aramaic, the language which Jesus actually spoke.

      BUT:

      The fact that there are such nice distinctions in the Greek at numerous points as seen by the figure of speech Paronomasia [The repetition of words similar in sound but not necessarily in sense, as in Genesis 4:25 there is an intended word play upon the sound of the name "Seth" and the word "appointed," in Hebrew "shath," a figure present all through the Bible, in the New Testament at Matthew 16:18; Matthew 22:3; Matthew 24:7; Luke 21:11; Romans 1:29, 31; Romans 9:18; 1 Corinthians 9:17; 2 Corinthians 8:22; 2 Corinthians 9:8; Philippians 3:2; 1 Timothy 1:18; 1 Timothy 4:3; 1 Timothy 6:5, 6, 9; Hebrews 5:8; James 5:17] shows that Matthew was originally written in Greek, and is NOT a translation from the Aramaic.

      Now to back up my assertion by documenting the scholarly opinion that agrees with me:

      No less an authority than Nigel Turner cites this very distinction (Petros, petra) as evidence that Jesus on this occasion spoke in Greek, not Aramaic (Grammatical Insights, page 181; Grammar of New Testament Greek, Volume 4, page 38), and asserts that Matthew's gospel was originally written in Greek, and is not a translation from the Aramaic.

      The "rock" may be the truth of Peter's confession, the faith which underlies the confession, or it may be a reference to Christ himself. The latter option (and all three may be true and intended, as often happens) seems to be favored by the cross reference passages usually given for this passage: Matthew 7:24-27. Isaiah 28:16. 1 Corinthians 3:9-11. 1 Corinthians 10:4. Ephesians 2:20-22. Colossians 1:18. 1 Peter 2:4-6. Revelation 21:14.

      I trust that what I have painstakingly typed (not copied and pasted!) above furnishes you and all who may read this with the kind of ammunition required to demolish the foolishness of the claims made by the Hebrew Roots Movement, the Roman Catholics, and the "Sacred Name Movement."

      We all need to take seriously our obligation to know the answers for the reason for our faith (1 Peter 3:15), and the obligation for each of us (not just our pastors!) to study the written Word of God in the Bible seriously so that we can be workmen that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

      It may take a little work to "get your head around this stuff," but once you have done so, the Lord can use you as an instrument in His hand and your testimony to further reach those caught up in such errors as those in Seventh Day Adventism, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Hebrew Roots Movement, the Sacred Name Movement, and even Roman Catholics--all these representing many people around us who have fallen prey to false doctrine in the extreme!

      Comment


      • Resurgence in people going back to the law (Hebraic Roots Movement)

        I was wondering if this was a National phenomenon or if it's just local to New Mexico. But my husband and I were discussing today the number of people we know who have taken to Judaism. Christians who are putting themselves back under the law. Observing all the Jewish customs, holidays, and traditions. Then looking down on others who don't share their beliefs. Worshiping on the Sabbath and not Sunday. That sort of thing. Anyone?

        I wasn't sure if this was an end time thing, or a christian theology discussion. So please forgive me if this is in the wrong spot.

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        • Could it be the Phildelphia Church of God? Herbert Armstrong comes to mind. They observe the Passover and Saturday Sabbath.

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          • Its apparently a huge movement.

            Sometimes I listen to INR and many groups are forming across the US and elsewhere that are apparently leaving Christianity and going this way.

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            • It is here too in places in Canada.

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              • Carob, these are people in all denominations. Including ours. I was shocked to hear a pastor friend of ours has begun wearing his beard long and even the curls next to his face and he is Baptist! I just don't understand the facination, and I'm part Jewish myself!

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                • Is there any scriptural bases for this? Is there anything that says in the Last days people will go back to the law for whatever reason?

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                  • I'm not aware of any Scripture that says people will return to worhsipping under the law rather than the new covenant.

                    But, one thing that has always gotten me is "Keep the Sabbath". Well, what day is the Sabbath: Saturday as it was under the law or Sunday (the first day of the week) as institued by the RCC?

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                    • This is wild. Recently, I have been learning about the Feasts and wanting to celebrate the feasts. Because I have learned so much about the influence the Catholic church has had on our beliefs and changed things I have questioned why we worship on Sunday. Questioning why since Paul still taught on the Sabbath and worshipped on the Sabbath why we don't. I feel that the Catholic church is somehow causing many to "miss the mark" with its teachings and by keeping eyes off of Jesus. By having members to confess to someone rather than confessing to Jesus, it is not acknowledging Jesus and the Holy Spirit for Who they are. It's as if the veil was never torn. It bothers me so much. I have begun questioning how the Catholic church has affected the doctrine of other churches. I know that I am free from the law because of Jesus. But, I am interested in celebrating the feasts.
                      Do these people feel bound by the law?

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                      • Another thing that worries me is that I was saved when I was 12. But, I don't think I really surrendered to Jesus until just recently. I thought I was saved that whole time but I really don't think I was. I was a good, responsible girl, but I just really didn't feel different. I'm afraid many are the same way. I think of all the people that think because they have prayed the sinner's prayer that that is it. They really didn't give all to Jesus. They are really going to be dismayed when they hear Him say "Depart. I never knew you." I'm afraid of what churches have not done. What they have left out that will keep many from entering the gates. What do you all feel?

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                        • Heb 6:4-6 comes to mind
                          1 Samual 15:22

                          And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams

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                          • Not seeing that. That is turning away from God and then trying to return. I'm speaking of people not really having salvation to begin with.

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                            • This sounds like the "Two House" or "Hebraic Roots" teachings. There's a great sticky thread about these in the Cults Section. NOT good stuff to mess with, but being agressively "marketed"!!!
                              Strengthen the weak hands, And make firm the feeble knees. Say to those who are feeble-hearted, Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God will come with a vengence, With the recompense of God; He will come and save you." Is 35:3-6

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                              • Originally posted by LadyJ View Post
                                Carob, these are people in all denominations. Including ours. I was shocked to hear a pastor friend of ours has begun wearing his beard long and even the curls next to his face and he is Baptist! I just don't understand the facination, and I'm part Jewish myself!
                                Whaaaat? That is really bizarre! The old laws were done away with by Christ, these people aren't dismissing the NT are they? Don't tell me that he refuses to eat shellfish too

                                Originally posted by rescuedbyChrist View Post
                                Because I have learned so much about the influence the Catholic church has had on our beliefs and changed things I have questioned why we worship on Sunday.
                                We are no longer under the OT laws, we are under NT grace now. We are obligated to follow the laws of Christ. Interestingly, He affirmed 9 of the 10 commandments in his preaching. The one He did not reaffirm is honoring the Sabbath. In fact Christ Himself did not keep the Sabbath:

                                John 9:16
                                Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."
                                This is because every day is a day of worship now, we are to pray to and worship God constantly:

                                1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
                                Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
                                Originally posted by rescuedbyChrist View Post
                                I feel that the Catholic church is somehow causing many to "miss the mark" with its teachings and by keeping eyes off of Jesus. By having members to confess to someone rather than confessing to Jesus, it is not acknowledging Jesus and the Holy Spirit for Who they are. It's as if the veil was never torn. It bothers me so much.
                                It should indeed bother you, what the RCC preaches is unscriptural. If you are attending a Catholic church then please do yourself a favor and quit going. Seek out a church that teaches sound Bible-based doctrine. You'll find a lot of threads on the RCC apostasy in the "Apostasy" forum here:

                                http://www.rr-bb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=43

                                The RCC has created their own sets of rules and beliefs and they force-feed it to their perishioners. It is the world's biggest cult.

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