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  • Originally posted by lovePsalm40 View Post
    I prefer to hear from one of the men moderators.

    Thank you!!
    Ann


    Sorry to be female, but I've merged your question with the main IHOP thread. Under the suggestion of a male mod though, so I hope that's ok.

    I can not guarantee that no female moderators have commented in it though.

    Comment


    • IHOP....Prayer Furnace--what do you know?

      Originally posted by Nightelf View Post


      Sorry to be female, but I've merged your question with the main IHOP thread. Under the suggestion of a male mod though, so I hope that's ok.

      I can not guarantee that no female moderators have commented in it though.
      Thanks so much for moving it here, Night Elf! I couldn't remember Steve's name but was hoping to hear from him, but I see lots of good info here so I am probably all set. Just looking for the whole actual church thing. Our church seems to be affiliated with some Prayer Furnace thing and I'm worried about that--wondering if it has IHOP connections. Anyone heard of this?

      Thank you!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lovePsalm40 View Post
        Thanks so much for moving it here, Night Elf! I couldn't remember Steve's name but was hoping to hear from him, but I see lots of good info here so I am probably all set. Just looking for the whole actual church thing. Our church seems to be affiliated with some Prayer Furnace thing and I'm worried about that--wondering if it has IHOP connections. Anyone heard of this?

        Thank you!
        IHOP, is Mike Bickle, is dominionism, is reason to run the other way.

        Here is a good source for all things dominionist. Sarah Leslie is someone I have come to know and is as good on the topic as you will find.

        http://herescope.blogspot.com/
        There is One King, and He is not this guy. sigpic

        Comment


        • Originally posted by beleive View Post
          ihop in k.c. led by mike bikle is this a cult??Alot of people getting drawn to this church they dont believe in the rapture??Some people from my church are drawn to it??
          They do believe in the Rapture, at least according to their Statement of Faith:

          We believe that the Church will go through the Great Tribulation in great power and victory. We believe the Church will be raptured at the end of the Great Tribulation.
          Post-trib.

          Not an issue critical for salvation, but still....

          Comment


          • Originally posted by son of dust View Post
            They do believe in the Rapture, at least according to their Statement of Faith:

            Post-trib.

            Not an issue critical for salvation, but still....
            Devil is in the details, the second coming is to them the rapture. They believe in a dominionist view, and they will usher in His second coming, thus raptured just to be sent back for the parade.
            There is One King, and He is not this guy. sigpic

            Comment


            • International House of Prayer

              Good afternoon, everyone!

              I'd like to know what you think/know of the International House of Prayer. My son plays in a christian band and they are planning to play there. We're hoping they get to play in many different venues, eventually. They are really, really good.

              Anyway, the church we attend has said that if they play there, they are banned from playing at our church. I just don't know what to do/think.
              The kids are not required to take any classes or sign any commitment forms. It's just one Friday a month they get a 2-hour time slot to play praise and worship music. There are no sermons or teachings that take place.

              Could you whatever insight you might have.
              Thanks!

              Comment


              • Just type IHOP into the Search bar here on RR.....there's lots.

                Comment


                • Maybe this will help you?

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ouse_of_Prayer
                  Mary Brown

                  John 15:18-25

                  Revelation 4:1
                  New International Version (©1984)
                  After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."

                  Comment


                  • IHOP and Micke Bickle promote Domionism and a lot of Contemplative and new-age mysticism


                    any church or ministry supporting or associated with IHOP or Mike Bickle I would stay away from.
                    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

                    Comment


                    • I left my church because they supported IHOP

                      Comment


                      • Mike Bickle of IHOP wants book about Catholic mystics as "manual for IHOP-KC"

                        Much of the literature being sold through the International House of Prayer’s online FORERUNNER Bookstore indicates a contemplative influence. One such book being offered is Fire Within, written by Father Thomas Dubay. IHOP founder Mike Bickle states, “I want this book to be the manual for IHOP-KC.” [1]

                        That is high praise indeed from Mike Bickle. The full title of the book is Fire Within: St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and the Gospel–On Prayer. Incredibly, Bickle’s “manual” is about Catholic, contemplative mystics! Also for sale on the website are books by and about St. John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, and even Madame Guyon.

                        Another book being offered is The Forgotten Desert Mothers, by Laura Swan. Swan writes, “We begin to discard our old ways and go in search of new ways of communicating with God. Our prayer matures and takes on new forms.” [2] And what are these new forms? Swan states, ”Centering prayer, lectio divina, Christian meditation, Taize, and the Divine Office are all sought. Prayer moves us toward the simple: often sitting silently before the Divine–in contemplative or centering prayer–is all we feel drawn to do.” [3]

                        Richard Foster’s Celebration of Discipline is for sale; as is Clowning in Rome and The Way of the Heart by Henri Nouwen.

                        James Goll’s Dream Language can also be purchased through the IHOP bookstore. According to Product Description, “After centuries of neglect, the church is rediscovering the realm of dreams and visions as a legitimate avenue for receiving divine revelation.” [4]

                        Goll, too, is a contemplative. In his study guide on Consecrated Contemplative Prayer, Goll writes, “I wish to express thanks to our Lord for the writings of Richard Foster.” [5]

                        I am not trying to aggravate those who support IHOP, but is it possible Bickle’s…odd…interpretation of certain Bible passages is the result of contemplative prayer? Make no mistake: contemplative practices can change–or determine–a person’s theology.

                        In an audio message, Mike Bickle apparently voiced great enthusiasm for contemplative prayer. Jocelyn Andersen has transcribed some of what was said, which you can find HERE. Kim Olsen of Discernit has reproduced IHOP’s promotion of contemplative prayer HERE. Perhaps it is not surprising that these have vanished from the web but can still be examined because of the diligence of these two saints.

                        One last thing: If you are wondering what contemplative prayer is, here is a link to an excellent article, What Is Spiritual Formation? READ

                        We are in a war. Through contemplative practices a false christ–many false christs, actually–have great opportunity to deceive.

                        –Latest related article: Mike Bickle of IHOP-KC instructs followers on contemplative prayer: click_HERE

                        Endnotes:

                        1. http://store.ihopkc.org/store/product/163/Fire-Within/

                        2. Laura Swan, The Forgotten Desert Mothers, pg. 160 HERE

                        3. Ibid., pg. 160

                        4. http://store.ihopkc.org/store/produc...ream-Language/

                        5. http://www.encountersnetwork.com/pdf...plative_prayer. pdf


                        http://mywordlikefire.com

                        Comment


                        • Meditation / Contemplation

                          The Word of God has roughly 4 dozen verses that refer to meditation. Isaac, Moses, King David, Solomon, Daniel, Isaiah, and the Apostle Paul all speak of meditation in a positive light. What matters is the content of what you are meditating on. Don't confuse it with eastern mysticism.

                          Merriam-Webster defines "contemplative" as: "marked by or given to contemplation; specifically: of or relating to a religious order devoted to prayer and penance". Some alternative definitions by Webster...
                          1. (v. t.) To consider carefully; to look at on all sides or in all its bearings; to view or consider with continued attention; to regard with deliberate care; to meditate on; to study.
                          2. (v. t.) To consider or have in view, as contingent or probable; to look forward to; to purpose; to intend.
                          3. (v. i.) To consider or think studiously; to ponder; to reflect; to muse; to meditate.

                          I'm sure you've heard the "pray without ceasing" theme expressed by the Apostle Paul. 1 Thess 1:2-3, 1 Thess 5:17, Rom 1:9, Eph 1:16, and Eph 6:18 all describe continual prayerful expressions. Jesus himself also expressed this same thing in Luke 18:1. Sounds pretty meditative and contemplative to me. You are either misunderstanding or misintepreting the intention of "meditative or contemplative prayer". I do not know if this is willful or comes from a lack of proper perspective. Here is a verse that uses both words in the same sentence, "I remember the days of old. I meditate on all your doings. I contemplate the work of your hands" Psalm 143:5. Your perception of the topic is skewed and inaccurate or at least incomplete.

                          The only work you referred to specifically that I am familiar with personally is "Celebration of Discipline" by Richard Foster. He is a widely respected author and scholar in both reserved conservative and charismatic circles. I am guessing you haven't read the book. If you had, you'd realize how far off base you are with your criticism. I will say, when I first "heard" of meditative or contemplative prayer, I too was a bit skeptical, until I actually studied it and learned that my imagination did not line up with what it actually is.

                          If you only read information that criticizes the topic, then you do not have a fair or accurate picture of what it really is. This is not responsible scholarship.
                          Proverbs 18:17 "The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Thespis View Post
                            The Word of God has roughly 4 dozen verses that refer to meditation. Isaac, Moses, King David, Solomon, Daniel, Isaiah, and the Apostle Paul all speak of meditation in a positive light. What matters is the content of what you are meditating on. Don't confuse it with eastern mysticism.

                            Merriam-Webster defines "contemplative" as: "marked by or given to contemplation; specifically: of or relating to a religious order devoted to prayer and penance". Some alternative definitions by Webster...
                            1. (v. t.) To consider carefully; to look at on all sides or in all its bearings; to view or consider with continued attention; to regard with deliberate care; to meditate on; to study.
                            2. (v. t.) To consider or have in view, as contingent or probable; to look forward to; to purpose; to intend.
                            3. (v. i.) To consider or think studiously; to ponder; to reflect; to muse; to meditate.

                            I'm sure you've heard the "pray without ceasing" theme expressed by the Apostle Paul. 1 Thess 1:2-3, 1 Thess 5:17, Rom 1:9, Eph 1:16, and Eph 6:18 all describe continual prayerful expressions. Jesus himself also expressed this same thing in Luke 18:1. Sounds pretty meditative and contemplative to me. You are either misunderstanding or misintepreting the intention of "meditative or contemplative prayer". I do not know if this is willful or comes from a lack of proper perspective. Here is a verse that uses both words in the same sentence, "I remember the days of old. I meditate on all your doings. I contemplate the work of your hands" Psalm 143:5. Your perception of the topic is skewed and inaccurate or at least incomplete.

                            The only work you referred to specifically that I am familiar with personally is "Celebration of Discipline" by Richard Foster. He is a widely respected author and scholar in both reserved conservative and charismatic circles. I am guessing you haven't read the book. If you had, you'd realize how far off base you are with your criticism. I will say, when I first "heard" of meditative or contemplative prayer, I too was a bit skeptical, until I actually studied it and learned that my imagination did not line up with what it actually is.

                            If you only read information that criticizes the topic, then you do not have a fair or accurate picture of what it really is. This is not responsible scholarship.
                            Proverbs 18:17 "The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him."
                            Who are you addressing specifically?

                            The idea is that there is a scripturally accurate understanding of contemplation and meditation that is fine, there is also an Eastern understanding of those concepts. Unfortunately in most modern churches that use these fad phrases, the Eastern understanding is what is being taught, not the very mindfully active meditations espoused in scripture.

                            Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Thespis View Post
                              The Word of God has roughly 4 dozen verses that refer to meditation. Isaac, Moses, King David, Solomon, Daniel, Isaiah, and the Apostle Paul all speak of meditation in a positive light. What matters is the content of what you are meditating on. Don't confuse it with eastern mysticism.

                              Merriam-Webster defines "contemplative" as: "marked by or given to contemplation; specifically: of or relating to a religious order devoted to prayer and penance". Some alternative definitions by Webster...
                              1. (v. t.) To consider carefully; to look at on all sides or in all its bearings; to view or consider with continued attention; to regard with deliberate care; to meditate on; to study.
                              2. (v. t.) To consider or have in view, as contingent or probable; to look forward to; to purpose; to intend.
                              3. (v. i.) To consider or think studiously; to ponder; to reflect; to muse; to meditate.

                              I'm sure you've heard the "pray without ceasing" theme expressed by the Apostle Paul. 1 Thess 1:2-3, 1 Thess 5:17, Rom 1:9, Eph 1:16, and Eph 6:18 all describe continual prayerful expressions. Jesus himself also expressed this same thing in Luke 18:1. Sounds pretty meditative and contemplative to me. You are either misunderstanding or misintepreting the intention of "meditative or contemplative prayer". I do not know if this is willful or comes from a lack of proper perspective. Here is a verse that uses both words in the same sentence, "I remember the days of old. I meditate on all your doings. I contemplate the work of your hands" Psalm 143:5. Your perception of the topic is skewed and inaccurate or at least incomplete.

                              The only work you referred to specifically that I am familiar with personally is "Celebration of Discipline" by Richard Foster. He is a widely respected author and scholar in both reserved conservative and charismatic circles. I am guessing you haven't read the book. If you had, you'd realize how far off base you are with your criticism. I will say, when I first "heard" of meditative or contemplative prayer, I too was a bit skeptical, until I actually studied it and learned that my imagination did not line up with what it actually is.

                              If you only read information that criticizes the topic, then you do not have a fair or accurate picture of what it really is. This is not responsible scholarship.
                              Proverbs 18:17 "The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him."
                              Responsible scholarship would be to understand the terms they, and those they promote, mean when they say "mediate" and "contemplative". Have you read foster, or manning, do you know their theology? You asked others if they have read them and I have. I own CoD in the 1978 printing which advocates out of body experiences and alpha state meditation. You won't find that in later printings as that is occultic and caused foster a great deal of heat, as well it should have. In "Prayer Finding The Hearts True Home" foster tells us we need to pray a prayer of protection when in true contemplative prayer as there are all manner of spirits there so protection is needed. Where may I ask is that mentioned in Scripture? Some books able to be purchased through ihop are by individuals who deny essentials of the faith, and yet you defend a spirituality that leads them to conclude salvation is universal? Before you come here and condescend to us as though we don't know, perhaps you may want to look a little deeper into all those who have popularized the revival of middle age mysticism that should be as dead as the church which birthed them.

                              The authors mentioned advocate a subjective process which seeks to empty the mind. The meditation of the OT you referenced was eyes wide open, interactive and direct. God was present, so too needed to the person coming to Him, not in an altered state. The mystical, experiential practices they advocate lead to subjective, emotional darkness and are no different from that of Eastern Mystics. In the books peddled by ihop you will find promotion of lectio divina, breath prayers, labyrinth/prayer walks and all manner of vehicles to reach "silence". These practices are not scriptural and were actually rebuked in Scripture.

                              Careful and responsible scholarship indeed.
                              There is One King, and He is not this guy. sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by OnceWasLost
                                Careful and responsible scholarship indeed.
                                Indeed.

                                Originally posted by Thespis View Post
                                What matters is the content of what you are meditating on. Don't confuse it with eastern mysticism.
                                "One such book being offered is Fire Within, written by Father Thomas Dubay. IHOP founder Mike Bickle states, “I want this book to be the manual for IHOP-KC.” [1]"

                                I know what scholarship is, and you don't present it very well. For one thing, a secular dictionary is not proper scholarship when discerning whether "mystic" practices are sound doctrine.

                                These people make sport of the sheep, buying their books and videos.

                                Originally posted by Thespis View Post
                                Proverbs 18:17 "The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him."
                                I've seen this in action, typically from unprepared and possibly ignorant people. Its true for believer and unbeliever alike. Its certainly not in action in your responses. I don't see you presenting anything that brings any facts into question, they speak for themselves, like promoting some old catholic monk's writings. Kinda difficult to refute I know, but hey, you're the one who stepped in it.
                                Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

                                Joel 3:2

                                I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

                                Comment

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