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Francis Bergoglio Declares Death Penalty "Inadmissable In All Cases"

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  • Francis Bergoglio Declares Death Penalty "Inadmissable In All Cases"

    Okay, I guess we've found someone who thinks he knows better than God:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/w...h-penalty.html
    The statement ushered in a change in Roman Catholic teaching by Francis, who has spoken out against capital punishment before.
    --------Eric H. Bowen

    sigpic 16 inch Armor Piercing: When you care enough to send the very, very, best!

  • #2
    According to this guy, God has changed His mind on many many things. The bible is clear that God is the same always. Jesus said this himself, I don't remember chapter and verse, but I know He said it.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ehbowen View Post
      Okay, I guess we've found someone who thinks he knows better than God:

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/w...h-penalty.html
      "An eye for an eye" was of the OT.
      Written on our hearts is "thou shalt not kill".

      Or do we know better than God when to end someone's chance to turn from sin?

      Comment


      • #4
        You know, I'm willing to consider the possibility that God might be willing to change his mind on details; the Old Testament dietary laws come to mind. He is a complete person and not a God of wood or stone, after all. But he's not going to change in his essential nature, nor should he...and that essential nature, as Gregg Matte of Houston's First Baptist has observed, is focused upon holiness.

        So, if you disagree with God and want to persuade him to change his mind, IMO you must first convince him that your proposed solution, including all of its intended and unintended consequences, is more holy than what he already has in mind. Good luck. But, given the theoretical possibility that you succeed...I think that he wouldn't be too proud to change his policy. I must say, though, that's an awfully high bar to cross.
        Pastor Gregg Matte begins his “Words With Friends” series by taking a closer look at the concept of holiness from 1 Peter. Holiness means to be set apart and sp
        --------Eric H. Bowen

        sigpic 16 inch Armor Piercing: When you care enough to send the very, very, best!

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        • #5
          I was wondering who Mr. Bergoglio was... He'll face the King of Kings someday... the way things are going, it probably won't go well for Mr. Bergoglio.
          Tall Timbers, Imperfect but forgiven

          3 trees

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Hill Top View Post

            "An eye for an eye" was of the OT.
            Written on our hearts is "thou shalt not kill".

            Or do we know better than God when to end someone's chance to turn from sin?
            I may be totally misunderstanding your point, but I'd guess that close to 100% of those on death row have committed pre-meditated first degree murder.
            If you are on death row in CA, you would have plenty of time to turn from sin...way longer than the life of the person you killed, in close to 100% of the cases

            That's as big as my bite gets
            sigpic
            I know the Lord is always with me. I will not be shaken because He is right beside me. Ps. 16:8

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Momma D View Post

              I may be totally misunderstanding your point, but I'd guess that close to 100% of those on death row have committed pre-meditated first degree murder.
              If you are on death row in CA, you would have plenty of time to turn from sin...way longer than the life of the person you killed, in close to 100% of the cases

              That's as big as my bite gets
              Amen. There are laws in this country and consequences for breaking them ( or should be - not so much in politics). Jesus allowed the men on either side of him to be executed, but one made the choice to ask for grace and was saved - the other continued to mock and was lost forever. They made choices - earthly and eternally.



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              • #8
                Originally posted by Hill Top View Post
                "An eye for an eye" was of the OT.
                Written on our hearts is "thou shalt not kill".

                Or do we know better than God when to end someone's chance to turn from sin?
                The Law of Moses is done away with for individuals, and when it says in our English language Bibles "Thou Shalt not kill" the original language says "thou shall commit no murder."

                Governments are still held to OT standards, as in they shall punish those who commit crimes,
                unless you want them to not enforce laws at all (and we are now seeing that in certain areas
                of our "civilizaton"). The applicable verse from Genesis 9:6 says:
                “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image."

                If Jesus wanted to make an unmistakable stand against the death penalty,
                he could have asked His father to remove the penalty from the thief on the right.

                (OK< maybe that is a stretch, but it makes a point, that there is no prohibition
                in the Bible, NT or old, against the government enforcing the death penalty.)

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                • #9
                  TRex2
                  sigpic
                  -Lynn

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TRex2 View Post
                    The Law of Moses is done away with for individuals, and when it says in our English language Bibles "Thou Shalt not kill" the original language says "thou shall commit no murder."

                    Governments are still held to OT standards, as in they shall punish those who commit crimes,
                    unless you want them to not enforce laws at all (and we are now seeing that in certain areas
                    of our "civilizaton"). The applicable verse from Genesis 9:6 says:
                    “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image."

                    If Jesus wanted to make an unmistakable stand against the death penalty,
                    he could have asked His father to remove the penalty from the thief on the right.

                    (OK< maybe that is a stretch, but it makes a point, that there is no prohibition
                    in the Bible, NT or old, against the government enforcing the death penalty.)
                    Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and pray for those who hurt you. Walk two miles instead of one, and give your coat with your cloak.
                    How does the killing of a criminal manifest our love of God?
                    I see the death penalty as the usurping of God's will.
                    I live in the NT.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Momma D View Post

                      I may be totally misunderstanding your point, but I'd guess that close to 100% of those on death row have committed pre-meditated first degree murder.
                      If you are on death row in CA, you would have plenty of time to turn from sin..)
                      If all the death penalties were commuted to life in prison, some of the criminals might start bringing forth works meet for repentance from sin.
                      That would be my hope.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hill Top View Post

                        Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and pray for those who hurt you. Walk two miles instead of one, and give your coat with your cloak.
                        How does the killing of a criminal manifest our love of God?
                        I see the death penalty as the usurping of God's will.
                        I live in the NT.
                        Except He said that before He went to the cross.
                        In other words, He said it to people who were still under the law.

                        And He said it to individuals, not to government.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hill Top View Post

                          Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and pray for those who hurt you. Walk two miles instead of one, and give your coat with your cloak.
                          How does the killing of a criminal manifest our love of God?
                          I see the death penalty as the usurping of God's will.
                          I live in the NT.
                          The above posting isn't clear, and a bug in the software won't let me edit it.

                          I meant to say:
                          Except He said that before He went to the cross.
                          In other words, He said to people who were under the Law.

                          And He said it to individuals, not to government.

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                          • #14
                            Capital punishment was prescribed by God prior to the Mosaic Law, so it is not something that is abrogated by Jesus's death on the cross.

                            Also, Paul, in Romans 13, indicates that government has the power to execute evildoers.

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