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  • #46
    Originally posted by funmudder View Post
    And the people that have gone right to his face have shared what happened and we've linked to their blogs.
    I know it's rude to make people repeat themselves; but they've gone directly to Rob Bell?




    Did you miss Christy's post?
    Thanks.

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    • #47
      Yeah he's a false-teacher all right... a vague false teacher who believes:

      in the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible

      the relevancy of the Bible for today

      the imago dei

      that God is creator

      in the sinfulness of humanity

      the virgin birth

      the deity of Jesus

      his bodily resurrection

      the need for repentance

      that Jesus' sacrifice is the only means of salvation

      the indwell and gifting of the Holy Spirit

      the return of Christ in judgment

      and the restoration of a new heaven and new earth.
      Last edited by Harley; May 25th, 2007, 11:01 AM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Harley View Post
        Yeah he's a false-teacher all right... a false teacher who believes;
        in the inspiration and inerrancy of the Scriptures
        the relevancy of the Scriptures for today
        the imago dei
        that God is creator
        in the sinfulness of humanity
        the virgin birth
        the deity of Jesus
        his bodily resurrection
        the need for repentance
        that Jesus' sacrifice is the only means of salvation
        the indwell and gifting of the Holy Spirit
        the return of Christ in judgment
        and the restoration of a new heaven and new earth.
        My experience with Robb Bell, in listening to some of his studies and reading the watchblogs, is that it's like dealing with a Mormon. They use the same language, the same phrases, but they often mean something else entirely. It's Bell's application of these concepts that is very problematic.

        How can he say he believes in the the inspiration and inerrancy of the scriptures, and that God is the creator, when he teaches that Genesis (at least the first 11 chapters) is myth? God doesn't inspire (breath into) myths and myths are by their very nature untrue and therefore errant. How does he know God is the creator when he doesn't believe the text that tells us this?

        While he may believes in those things, the question "to what end" keeps coming to mind. It comes to mind because of what I've heard him say and what he has written. Bell preaches an incomplete gospel. He talks the talk so as to appease us fundies, bu the follow through isn't there. That's been my experience.

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        • #49
          I've spent more time than it's worth trying to find the text or a video of Rob Bell saying Genesis is myth - since I'd like to see the statement in context before bringing the oil to a boil... where are those feathers? Closest I could find was a reference to him saying Genesis 1 is Hebrew poetry. Even that, though, requires a greater context which I could not find.

          So, until I see something more precise (my whole point from the beginning) I'm willing to assume he means what he says - not what others say he really means. If ya'll don't want to believe his affirmations of Orthodox Christian beliefs, so be it... I can't stop you from redefining his words. I could, however, find neofundamentalists who call Billy Graham a false teacher using the same logic (e.g. "He talks a good talk but shares the podium with Romists, therefore he doesn't really mean...").

          Hey - this is fun!

          Comment


          • #50
            This whole thread reminds me of a recent thread about Dan Kimball (who I like with greater consistency than Bell)... the upshot to that thread was - regardless of what orthodox quotes and statements Dan makes... there are always those who say he's just putting on a front - that that's not what he really means...

            ...i want that ability, I want to be able to discern the heart of a brother in Christ... I want to be able to skip past what he says and does and judge his motives and intents... i want to weigh God's calling on his life... to discount his minsitry...





            then again...





            maybe I don't.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by corby View Post
              My experience with Robb Bell, in listening to some of his studies and reading the watchblogs, is that it's like dealing with a Mormon. They use the same language, the same phrases, but they often mean something else entirely. It's Bell's application of these concepts that is very problematic.

              How can he say he believes in the the inspiration and inerrancy of the scriptures, and that God is the creator, when he teaches that Genesis (at least the first 11 chapters) is myth? God doesn't inspire (breath into) myths and myths are by their very nature untrue and therefore errant. How does he know God is the creator when he doesn't believe the text that tells us this?

              While he may believes in those things, the question "to what end" keeps coming to mind. It comes to mind because of what I've heard him say and what he has written. Bell preaches an incomplete gospel. He talks the talk so as to appease us fundies, bu the follow through isn't there. That's been my experience.
              Corby, what is the point of Scripture? What is the theme of all scripture?

              Comment


              • #52
                Rob Bell teaches the phlosophy of relative truth, believes in the virgin birth, but he asks others, to question it, in his trampoline analogy. He seems to tell youth, to questions the faith and belief's handed down to them by their parents..

                In one sermon I listened to he was saying hell is in the now, in other sermons he teaches Kingdom now theology, earth spirituality of clean up the planet, before Jesus comes back, and political correct liberalism..

                He also imo teaches Rambam Philosophy, where God is not knowable, he is a force, that words cannot describe. Rambam taught people not to debate, what God is or is is not

                Bell quotes "Language fails and if we do definitely put God into Words, we have at that very moment made God something he is not"

                "Central to the Christian experience is the art of questioning God, not belligerent, arrogant questions that have no respect for our maker, but naked, honest, vulnerable, raw questions, arising out of the awe that comes from engaging the living God"

                We are all believers

                "everybody follows somebody. All of us make decisions every day about what is important, how to treat people, and what to do with out lives. These decisions come from what we believe about every aspect of our existence. And we got our beliefs from somewhere. We have been formed, everyone of us, by this complicated mix of people and places and things. Parents and teachers and artists and scientists and mentors--we are each taking all of these influences and living our lives according to which teachings we have made our own. Some insist that they aren't influenced by any person or any religion, that they think for themselves. And that's an honorable perspective. The problem is they got that perspective from...somebody. They're following somebody even if they insist it is themselves they are following.

                "Everybody is following somebody. Everybody has faith in something and somebody.

                "We are all believers." ~ Rob Bell, Velvet Elvis, pgs. 19-20

                escapist theology is not Biblical

                recommends Richard Rohr, Brian McLaren, Marcus Borg, The Dominican Center and much more

                From the Dominican Center

                Joseph Mitchell, CP, a Passionist priest, received his training in theology at Catholic Theological Union in Chicago and earned an M.A. in Philosophy, Cosmology and Consciousness from the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco. While currently serving as the director of the Passionist Earth and Spirit Center in Louisville, Kentucky, he conducts seminars and retreats in cosmology, eco-spirituality and meditation throughout the country.

                It was only after I began to study theology, and, in particular, to consider seriously the implications of Vatican II, especially Gaudiem et Spes, that I realized that my spirituality was narrow. It had to be much broader than "me and God," and, perhaps, needed additional "feeding." At the same time, the experiences of renewal within the congregation were also pulling me along toward a much more expansive vision of what the Christian life must be to be faithful to the Gospel. At that point in my life I probably would have described my spirituality as a "Vatican II spirituality."

                The above Priest earned an M.A. in Philosophy, Cosmology and Consciousness from the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco which is Ken Wilber'
                http://www.ciis.edu/
                Last edited by Lexie; May 25th, 2007, 12:15 PM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Harley View Post
                  I've spent more time than it's worth trying to find the text or a video of Rob Bell saying Genesis is myth - since I'd like to see the statement in context before bringing the oil to a boil... where are those feathers? Closest I could find was a reference to him saying Genesis 1 is Hebrew poetry. Even that, though, requires a greater context which I could not find.

                  So, until I see something more precise (my whole point from the beginning) I'm willing to assume he means what he says - not what others say he really means. If ya'll don't want to believe his affirmations of Orthodox Christian beliefs, so be it... I can't stop you from redefining his words.
                  Either you are not looking hard enough or you refuse to see it or face it.



                  Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                  Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                  Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
                    Either you are not looking hard enough or you refuse to see it or face it.
                    Are these my only options?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Harley View Post
                      Yeah he's a false-teacher all right... a vague false teacher who believes:
                      in the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible
                      the relevancy of the Bible for today
                      the imago dei
                      that God is creator
                      in the sinfulness of humanity
                      the virgin birth
                      the deity of Jesus
                      his bodily resurrection
                      the need for repentance
                      that Jesus' sacrifice is the only means of salvation
                      the indwell and gifting of the Holy Spirit
                      the return of Christ in judgment
                      and the restoration of a new heaven and new earth.
                      And your source that this is what he believes? Cause brother, thats not what I heard when I listened to a few of his 'messages' and it's certainly not what I read.

                      The Bells started questioning their assumptions about the Bible itself – “discovering the Bible as a human product,” as Rob puts it, rather than the product of divine fiat. “The Bible is still in the center for us,” Rob says, “but it’s a different kind of center. We want to embrace mystery, rather than conquer it.” source

                      Originally posted by rb
                      Doctrines should be more like springs, helping people jump joyfully toward God, he writes.
                      Originally posted by rb
                      "One of the lies is that truth only resides in this particular community or that particular thought system," Bell says. "I affirm the truth anywhere in any religious system, in any worldview."
                      Originally posted by article
                      "The Bible itself," he writes, "is a book that constantly must be wrestled with and re-interpreted." He dismisses claims that "Scripture alone" will answer all questions. Bible interpretation is colored by historical context, the reader's bias and current realities, he says. The more you study the Bible, the more questions it raises.
                      Source for above quotes

                      God is the same today, as He was yesterday, as He will be tomorrow, and so is his word. Doctrines are not lil ole trampolines that you can stretch to fit and bounce anything you believe to be good. Doctrine based firmly on the unchanging scripture is on solid rock. God Himself said scripture alone was sufficient for our spiritual needs and answers. If you do not find the answer you want in the Bible, then you are not seeking Gods truth, but your own. And as Corby spelled out clearly, just finding a truth inside any other religion, does not make their use of the truth God inspired. To put a stamp of truth on a tenet of a fasle religion is claiming to be equal to God in descerning the truth. How much sewage is acceptable in your drinking water? If something has 99% truth but 1% lie, does that give you, rob bell or anyone the right to claim the truth is from God? If you have a glass of water and it's 99% clean, but 1% sewage, do you still call it fit to drink? Do you serve it to others because of the clean parts?
                      No. You don't.

                      Mat 7:20-29 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
                      And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
                      And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
                      And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
                      And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

                      And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as [one] having authority, and not as the scribes.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Lexie View Post
                        Rob Bell teaches the phlosophy of relative truth...
                        "I don't follow Jesus because i think Christianity is the best religion. I follow Jesus because he leads me into ultimate reality. He teaches me to live in tune with how reality is. When Jesus said 'No one comes to the Father except through me', he was saying that his way, his words, his life is our connection to how things truly are at the deepest levels of existence. For Jesus then, the point of religion is to help us connect with ultimate reality." - Bell, VE pg. 083

                        One paragraph - four expressions that truth is ultimate and that it is found in Jesus Christ.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Harley View Post
                          "I don't follow Jesus because i think Christianity is the best religion. I follow Jesus because he leads me into ultimate reality. He teaches me to live in tune with how reality is. When Jesus said 'No one comes to the Father except through me', he was saying that his way, his words, his life is our connection to how things truly are at the deepest levels of existence. For Jesus then, the point of religion is to help us connect with ultimate reality." - Bell, VE pg. 083

                          One paragraph - four expressions that truth is ultimate and that it is found in Jesus Christ.
                          And what is Bell's ultimate reality? Especially since post modernists refuse to face or define reality for they see it as subjective.



                          Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                          Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                          Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by funmudder View Post
                            And your source that this is what he believes?...
                            "What we believe" - Mar's Hill

                            'Course, that's only a doctrinal statement and as I've been told before (not referrring to you funmudder) - those guys'll put up anything as a smoke screen...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Buzzardhut View Post
                              And what is Bell's ultimate reality?
                              "I love the way Paul puts it in the book of Colossians: These religious acts and rituals are shadows of the reality. 'The reality. . . is found in Christ." - Bell, VE, pg. 083

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Harley View Post
                                "I love the way Paul puts it in the book of Colossians: These religious acts and rituals are shadows of the reality. 'The reality. . . is found in Christ." - Bell, VE, pg. 083
                                Still too vague, it assumes religion and rituals are the gospel.
                                and is 'christ' referring to the person of Jesus Christ or the 'office of christ'?



                                Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
                                Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
                                Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

                                Comment

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